Franklin Armory coming out with non-NFA 11.5” AR variant

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ELB
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Re: Franklin Armory coming out with non-NFA 11.5” AR variant

Postby ELB » Wed Jan 17, 2018 4:38 pm

earlwb wrote:It may be using an oval barrel like that Russian gun that was made for Russians recently. They use an oval barrel that has a twist to it to impart the spin....


This? New Russian 9.6x53mm Lancaster Cartridge

More on Charles Lancaster and Lancaster barrels:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_William_Lancaster

http://firearmshistory.blogspot.com/201 ... ndian.html
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Re: Franklin Armory coming out with non-NFA 11.5” AR variant

Postby BBYC » Thu Jan 18, 2018 2:21 pm

We'll find out in a week. I hope this isn't over hyped like the Segway, which was going to radically transform our commutes. :lol:
God, grant me serenity to accept the things I can't change
Courage to change the things I can
And the firepower to make a difference.


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Re: Franklin Armory coming out with non-NFA 11.5” AR variant

Postby Abraham » Thu Jan 18, 2018 2:48 pm

BBYC,

The only time I've seen Segways was mall cops riding them and I always get a big laugh.

There's some goofy stuff out there for sale and yes, maybe even a bit of use for some of it, but mostly hype is hype is hype...


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Re: Franklin Armory coming out with non-NFA 11.5” AR variant

Postby earlwb » Thu Jan 18, 2018 11:18 pm

ELB wrote:
earlwb wrote:It may be using an oval barrel like that Russian gun that was made for Russians recently. They use an oval barrel that has a twist to it to impart the spin....


This? New Russian 9.6x53mm Lancaster Cartridge

More on Charles Lancaster and Lancaster barrels:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_William_Lancaster

http://firearmshistory.blogspot.com/201 ... ndian.html


Yes that is the one, I couldn't think of it earlier to do a search for it.


earlwb
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Re: Franklin Armory coming out with non-NFA 11.5” AR variant

Postby earlwb » Thu Jan 18, 2018 11:20 pm

Abraham wrote:BBYC,

The only time I've seen Segways was mall cops riding them and I always get a big laugh.

There's some goofy stuff out there for sale and yes, maybe even a bit of use for some of it, but mostly hype is hype is hype...


I have seen the police using them at various events before. So other PDs are using them as well. But it is hard to say if they will continue to do so. I suspect Segway may have subsidized them.

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Re: Franklin Armory coming out with non-NFA 11.5” AR variant

Postby The Annoyed Man » Sat Jan 20, 2018 10:51 am

More interesting analysis:

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Re: Franklin Armory coming out with non-NFA 11.5” AR variant

Postby jason812 » Sat Jan 20, 2018 11:57 am

I didn't think about a fire on release trigger. If this is the case and is allowed to be made, then hopefully this and the Shockwave, not a shotgun, can start a real movement to repeal the ludicrous NFA. I would be interested if I could buy the component or components that makes this not a NFA item, I'm done buying complete AR's.

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Re: Franklin Armory coming out with non-NFA 11.5” AR variant

Postby SRO1911 » Sat Jan 20, 2018 1:14 pm

Release triggers have been around for quite a while, particularly on shotguns.
At one point there was conversation about them being banned from benchrest rifle comps - not sure how that played out.
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Re: Franklin Armory coming out with non-NFA 11.5” AR variant

Postby TreyHouston » Sun Jan 21, 2018 12:55 am

So, what if it fired multiple bulets on the release of the trigger??? What about if it didn’t have a trigger but released many bullets on the computer recognizing a fingerprint?
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Re: Franklin Armory coming out with non-NFA 11.5” AR variant

Postby Ike Aramba » Sun Jan 21, 2018 12:20 pm

TreyHouston wrote:So, what if it fired multiple bulets on the release of the trigger???

If it fires multiple rounds with one trigger action, it's a machine gun.


TreyHouston wrote:What about if it didn’t have a trigger but released many bullets on the computer recognizing a fingerprint?

A trigger doesn't have to be mechanical. A GE M134 is a machine gun according to the ATF.


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Re: Franklin Armory coming out with non-NFA 11.5” AR variant

Postby montgomery » Sun Jan 21, 2018 12:41 pm

ghostrider wrote:very interesting.
while I know the laws are goofy & illogical, how is that not a rifle?


It is not a rifle because either:

A. It has no rifling as defined by BATFE, and / or;

B. It is not semi-automatic or automatic fire as defined by BATFE.

The trigger they are showing in promotional materials fires a single round on trigger "pull" and a second round on trigger release. This categorizes the firearm as a firearm not a rifle, shotgun, or pistol according to BATFE.


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Re: Franklin Armory coming out with non-NFA 11.5” AR variant

Postby montgomery » Sun Jan 21, 2018 12:43 pm

Ike Aramba wrote:So, what if it fired multiple bulets on the release of the trigger???

If it fires multiple rounds with one trigger action, it's a machine gun.

Automatic is defined as one (unreleased) pull that fires more than one round. Release is not part of definition.


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Re: Franklin Armory coming out with non-NFA 11.5” AR variant

Postby Ike Aramba » Sun Jan 21, 2018 12:50 pm

montgomery wrote:Automatic is defined as one (unreleased) pull that fires more than one round. Release is not part of definition.

I don't know where you got that definition of automatic, but I used the 26 U.S.C. § 5845(b) definition of machine gun. I think the ATF does too. :lol:


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Re: Franklin Armory coming out with non-NFA 11.5” AR variant

Postby montgomery » Sun Jan 21, 2018 1:56 pm

Ike Aramba wrote:
montgomery wrote:Automatic is defined as one (unreleased) pull that fires more than one round. Release is not part of definition.

I don't know where you got that definition of automatic, but I used the 26 U.S.C. § 5845(b) definition of machine gun. I think the ATF does too. :lol:


Yep. Single function of a trigger. The BATFE will tell you single function = single pull. Single pull excludes release from the single function because that is what stops the automatic fire in automatic mode. In part, this is from 26 U.S.C. § 5845(b):

(b) Machinegun. The term 'machinegun' means any weapon which shoots, is designed to shoot, or can
be readily restored to shoot, automatically more than one shot, without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger.


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Re: Franklin Armory coming out with non-NFA 11.5” AR variant

Postby srothstein » Sun Jan 21, 2018 4:01 pm

Thanks for that video TAM. I think it makes sense that the company found the loophole in the way ATF defines trigger actions. Auto uses the term single function but rifle uses the term single pull. If it has the binary trigger, it is not auto because each round fired requires a difference trigger function (pull and release). It is not a rifle because one pull of the trigger fires two rounds.

I wonder how long this definition will last before legal action is taken to correct it. I also wonder if it could be reclassified by just the ATF making an administrative adjustment to its definitions.
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