How to convince local (In-State) FFL to receive from out of state non-licensee?

Gun, shooting and equipment discussions unrelated to CHL issues

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Topic author
PriestTheRunner
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Posts: 37
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2018 5:33 pm

How to convince local (In-State) FFL to receive from out of state non-licensee?

Postby PriestTheRunner » Thu Mar 15, 2018 4:27 pm

Hello all,

I am having a slight problem with my local FFLs. Despite the fact that it is clearly legal, I have had 3 different local gun shops tell me that a handgun from out of state must come from a licensed FFL and not a private individual. My only guess is that they are stating this due to USPS's requirement that handgun shipping must be FFL to FFL. And yet, fedex and shipmygun.com regularly ship from private individual to receiving FFL in the transferee's state with no issues.

My question is, how do I "convince" my local gun shops that this isn't an issue and they are wrong. (Probably wishful thinking, I know, but the seller of the handgun doesn't have any FFL's who are local willing to send a gun for him. Not sure why. Its also cheaper this way without 2 FFL's getting a cut).

I am in East Texas and at this point I am willing to drive to a more-knowledgeable FFL if any know of one.




My "Proof" that I am reading the law correctly:

From the horse's mouth:
An unlicensed person who is not prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms may purchase a firearm from an out—of—State source, provided the transfer takes place through a Federal firearms licensee in his or her State of residence.

https://www.atf.gov/questions-and-answers/qa/how-may-unlicensed-person-receive-firearm-his-or-her-state-he-or-she


Again, from the ATF:
Under Federal law, an unlicensed individual is prohibited from transferring a firearm to an
individual who does not reside in the State where the transferee resides. Generally, for a person
to lawfully transfer a firearm to an unlicensed person who resides out of State, the firearm must
be shipped to a Federal Firearms Licensee (FFL) within the recipient’s State of residence. He or
she may then receive the firearm from the FFL upon completion of an ATF Form 4473 and a
NICS background check.

https://www.atf.gov/resource-center/docs/0813-firearms-top-12-qaspdf/download


Gun Broker .com:
[18 U.S.C 922(a)(3) and 922(b)(3); 27 CFR 478.29]


(B9) May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by carrier?
A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by carrier to a resident of his or her own state or to a licensee in any state. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(2)(A), 922(a) (3), 922(a)(5) and 922(e), 27 CFR 178.31, 27 CFR 478.31 and 478.30]
(B8) May a nonlicensee ship a firearm through the U. S. Postal Service?
A nonlicensee may mail a shotgun or rifle to a resident of his or her own state or to a licensee in any state. Handguns are not mailable. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. A nonlicensee may not transfer any firearm to a nonlicensed resident of another state. The Postal Service recommends that longguns be sent by registered mail and that no marking of any kind which would indicate the nature of the contents be placed on the outside of any parcel containing firearms.

[18 U.S.C. 1715, 922(a)(3), 922(a)(5) and 922 (a)(2)(A)]

https://support.gunbroker.com/hc/en-us/articles/222836508-Firearms-Shipping-Guide


NRA's guidance:
If SENDER is a PRIVATE INDIVIDUAL (non-licensee):
MODERN GUN to another PRIVATE INDIVIDUAL in a DIFFERENT STATE:
An individual can NOT ship direct. He must ship to an FFL licensed gun dealer, who will complete the transfer to the recipient in compliance with Federal & state law (usually a "yellow sheet" form 4473 & instant background check).
If it's a handgun, the dealer must be in the same state as the recipient.

http://www.nramuseum.com/gun-info-research/how-to-ship-guns-and-ammo.aspx




A blog that is completely wrong by my reading:
“From FFL to FFL, every time, no exceptions.”

Remember that phrase. It tells you what you need to do to stay out of trouble with the gun transfer laws when buying firearms across state lines. Federal firearms license (FFL) holders are the only persons who can legally handle gun sales across state lines. This means that the merchant you’re buying from must have an FFL, and that seller must, we repeat, must, ship the weapon directly to an FFL holder in your state. It’s then up to you to go to the FFL holder in your state and take possession of the weapon. Usually, the dealer will charge a small handling fee for his or her part in the transaction. Be sure to contact the FFL holder in your state to advise them you’d like to have the firearm shipped to their location. By handling interstate transactions in this manner, you’ll be in full compliance with federal laws.

https://www.durysguns.com/news/gun-transfer-laws-buying-out-of-state


Topic author
PriestTheRunner
Junior Member
Posts: 37
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2018 5:33 pm

Re: How to convince local (In-State) FFL to receive from out of state non-licensee?

Postby PriestTheRunner » Thu Mar 15, 2018 4:30 pm

Also, I just realized this is a sub-forum of the buy/sell/trade forum.

Mods, please feel free to move this thread to whatever location is most appropriate. I just figured the FFL guys could throw in here a bit easier.

Thanks

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Ameer
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Posts: 1350
Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2010 8:01 pm

Re: How to convince local (In-State) FFL to receive from out of state non-licensee?

Postby Ameer » Thu Mar 15, 2018 6:21 pm

Even if it's legal, they're allowed to have a policy of not accepting shipments from non-licensees.
I believe the basic political division in this country is not between liberals and conservatives but between those who believe that they should have a say in the personal lives of strangers and those who do not.

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Scott B.
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Posts: 962
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2014 11:46 am
Location: Harris County

Re: How to convince local (In-State) FFL to receive from out of state non-licensee?

Postby Scott B. » Thu Mar 15, 2018 6:58 pm

PriestTheRunner wrote:Hello all, I am having a slight problem with my local FFLs. Despite the fact that it is clearly legal, I have had 3 different local gun shops tell me that a handgun from out of state must come from a licensed FFL and not a private individual.


ATF gives FFLs a lot of leeway. We can decline sales and give no reason, etc.

The FFLs in your area are either; a) ignorant of the relevant guidance from ATF on transfers, or b) simply don't want to accept from an individual.

While my shop accepts transfers from individuals, they tend to be more problematic. Forgotten paperwork, poor packaging, etc. Course, other FFLs do that from time to time as well.

Call around until you find one. Trying to convince them that you're in the right is just wasted effort IMHO.

Good luck!
LTC Instructor. NRA - Instructor, RSO, Life Member.
Sig armorer | FFL 07/02 SOT


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