Action VS Reaction

[puma guy]

I'm attending our city's Civilian Police Academy and latest session covered Use of Force and some shooting demonstrations using weapons designed to shoot Simunition. The instructor asked for a show of hands on which is faster, action or reaction. Most including myself voted action, several voted reaction. The first exercise involved the instructor and a volunteer who voted reaction standing on opposite sides of a 55 gal drum with an empty magazine on top. The instructor demonstrated over and over he could beat his opponent, even when he had his hand at chin level and allowed the volunteer to be at the mid point of that height. Not surprising to most, but the volunteer was impressed. To further demonstrate in a simulated "real life" situation the instructor had a volunteer using a drawn pistol loaded with Simunition try to shoot before the instructor with his back to the volunteer could shoot first. The instructor beat the student every time. in about a third of the scenarios the instructor had his weapon in his hand and the rest he had it inserted into the waistband of his pants. The final time the instructor turned with no weapon in his hand and was shot. OOPS! The outcome wasn't a really big surprise to me, but I could tell many were impressed and had a fuller understanding of the difficulties facing police officers in shooting situations. Following was a demonstration on the appropriate distance allowable between a knife wielding perp and your self. Starting with the 21 foot guideline. Two officers, one with the "knife'" and one with his pistol holstered would enact an attack at 7 yards with the knife wielder winning every time except once when though he was shot got a glancing blow on the shooter. Next students wearing a service belt with the sim guns in a retention holster try to draw and shoot at a silhouette target at 7 yards. The instructor would stand beside the shooter facing the opposite direction. The student was to draw and shoot when the instructor took off running. No one could shoot before he had run at least 21 feet. I was the last to volunteer, but the belt was too small and I couldn't stretch it enough to get the buckle engaged, so I just used the velcro closure . I have never used a retention holster. When I practiced the release the velcro on the belt would let go allowing the belt to slip down. While I pretty much knew what the outcomes would be it was impressive to see that actuality. Looking forward to the next session with good guy bad guy target scenarios.

[Soccerdad1995]

I'm attending our city's Civilian Police Academy and latest session covered Use of Force and some shooting demonstrations using weapons designed to shoot Simunition. The instructor asked for a show of hands on which is faster, action or reaction. Most including myself voted action, several voted reaction. The first exercise involved the instructor and a volunteer who voted reaction standing on opposite sides of a 55 gal drum with an empty magazine on top. The instructor demonstrated over and over he could beat his opponent, even when he had his hand at chin level and allowed the volunteer to be at the mid point of that height. Not surprising to most, but the volunteer was impressed. To further demonstrate in a simulated "real life" situation the instructor had a volunteer using a drawn pistol loaded with Simunition try to shoot before the instructor with his back to the volunteer could shoot first. The instructor beat the student every time. in about a third of the scenarios the instructor had his weapon in his hand and the rest he had it inserted into the waistband of his pants. The final time the instructor turned with no weapon in his hand and was shot. OOPS! The outcome wasn't a really big surprise to me, but I could tell many were impressed and had a fuller understanding of the difficulties facing police officers in shooting situations. Following was a demonstration on the appropriate distance allowable between a knife wielding perp and your self. Starting with the 21 foot guideline. Two officers, one with the "knife'" and one with his pistol holstered would enact an attack at 7 yards with the knife wielder winning every time except once when though he was shot got a glancing blow on the shooter. Next students wearing a service belt with the sim guns in a retention holster try to draw and shoot at a silhouette target at 7 yards. The instructor would stand beside the shooter facing the opposite direction. The student was to draw and shoot when the instructor took off running. No one could shoot before he had run at least 21 feet. I was the last to volunteer, but the belt was too small and I couldn't stretch it enough to get the buckle engaged, so I just used the velcro closure . I have never used a retention holster. When I practiced the release the velcro on the belt would let go allowing the belt to slip down. While I pretty much knew what the outcomes would be it was impressive to see that actuality. Looking forward to the next session with good guy bad guy target scenarios.

Sounds like great training.

To be clear, it sounds like when the instructor started with his back turned, the students weren't allowed to fire until after he had turned and the student had identified a gun. Given those parameters the instructor should win every time. After he turns with gun in hand, he is on equal footing and does not have any constraints about not shooting an unarmed person (since he is playing a criminal).

[puma guy]

I'm attending our city's Civilian Police Academy and latest session covered Use of Force and some shooting demonstrations using weapons designed to shoot Simunition. The instructor asked for a show of hands on which is faster, action or reaction. Most including myself voted action, several voted reaction. The first exercise involved the instructor and a volunteer who voted reaction standing on opposite sides of a 55 gal drum with an empty magazine on top. The instructor demonstrated over and over he could beat his opponent, even when he had his hand at chin level and allowed the volunteer to be at the mid point of that height. Not surprising to most, but the volunteer was impressed. To further demonstrate in a simulated "real life" situation the instructor had a volunteer using a drawn pistol loaded with Simunition try to shoot before the instructor with his back to the volunteer could shoot first. The instructor beat the student every time. in about a third of the scenarios the instructor had his weapon in his hand and the rest he had it inserted into the waistband of his pants. The final time the instructor turned with no weapon in his hand and was shot. OOPS! The outcome wasn't a really big surprise to me, but I could tell many were impressed and had a fuller understanding of the difficulties facing police officers in shooting situations. Following was a demonstration on the appropriate distance allowable between a knife wielding perp and your self. Starting with the 21 foot guideline. Two officers, one with the "knife'" and one with his pistol holstered would enact an attack at 7 yards with the knife wielder winning every time except once when though he was shot got a glancing blow on the shooter. Next students wearing a service belt with the sim guns in a retention holster try to draw and shoot at a silhouette target at 7 yards. The instructor would stand beside the shooter facing the opposite direction. The student was to draw and shoot when the instructor took off running. No one could shoot before he had run at least 21 feet. I was the last to volunteer, but the belt was too small and I couldn't stretch it enough to get the buckle engaged, so I just used the velcro closure . I have never used a retention holster. When I practiced the release the velcro on the belt would let go allowing the belt to slip down. While I pretty much knew what the outcomes would be it was impressive to see that actuality. Looking forward to the next session with good guy bad guy target scenarios.

Sounds like great training.

To be clear, it sounds like when the instructor started with his back turned, the students weren't allowed to fire until after he had turned and the student had identified a gun. Given those parameters the instructor should win every time. After he turns with gun in hand, he is on equal footing and does not have any constraints about not shooting an unarmed person (since he is playing a criminal).

Maybe not clear enough. It was implied the instructor was armed. That's how he got shot with nothing in his hand on the final showdown when he put it in his waistband. He shot backward right side, around his left side, even over his shoulder. He was obviously extremely proficient; the lag time was very obvious. I wish I had videoed the session.