4yo kills self with grandmothers gun

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troglodyte
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4yo kills self with grandmothers gun

Postby troglodyte » Fri Sep 22, 2017 3:33 pm


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carlson1
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Re: 4yo kills self with grandmothers gun

Postby carlson1 » Fri Sep 22, 2017 4:19 pm

troglodyte wrote:So sad and avoidable. Retention is a 24/7 job.
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:iagree: I do not understand situations like this. Where is the holster? Why is this purse even accessible? Prayers for this poor family.
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LeonCarr
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Re: 4yo kills self with grandmothers gun

Postby LeonCarr » Mon Sep 25, 2017 10:57 am

I have asked it before and I will ask it again.

Why are parents/grandparents/family members not being charged with making firearms accessible to a child when tragedies like this happen?

This is illegal at the federal level (please read that yellow pamphlet you get/are supposed to get when you purchase a firearm) and at the state level in most states, here is the statute in Texas:

Sec. 46.13. MAKING A FIREARM ACCESSIBLE TO A CHILD. (a) In this section:

(1) "Child" means a person younger than 17 years of age.

(2) "Readily dischargeable firearm" means a firearm that is loaded with ammunition, whether or not a round is in the chamber.

(3) "Secure" means to take steps that a reasonable person would take to prevent the access to a readily dischargeable firearm by a child, including but not limited to placing a firearm in a locked container or temporarily rendering the firearm inoperable by a trigger lock or other means.

(b) A person commits an offense if a child gains access to a readily dischargeable firearm and the person with criminal negligence:

(1) failed to secure the firearm; or

(2) left the firearm in a place to which the person knew or should have known the child would gain access.

(c) It is an affirmative defense to prosecution under this section that the child's access to the firearm:

(1) was supervised by a person older than 18 years of age and was for hunting, sporting, or other lawful purposes;

(2) consisted of lawful defense by the child of people or property;

(3) was gained by entering property in violation of this code; or

(4) occurred during a time when the actor was engaged in an agricultural enterprise.

(d) Except as provided by Subsection (e), an offense under this section is a Class C misdemeanor.

(e) An offense under this section is a Class A misdemeanor if the child discharges the firearm and causes death or serious bodily injury to himself or another person.

(f) A peace officer or other person may not arrest the actor before the seventh day after the date on which the offense is committed if:

(1) the actor is a member of the family, as defined by Section 71.003, Family Code, of the child who discharged the firearm; and

(2) the child in discharging the firearm caused the death of or serious injury to the child.

(g) A dealer of firearms shall post in a conspicuous position on the premises where the dealer conducts business a sign that contains the following warning in block letters not less than one inch in height:

"IT IS UNLAWFUL TO STORE, TRANSPORT, OR ABANDON AN UNSECURED FIREARM IN A PLACE WHERE CHILDREN ARE LIKELY TO BE AND CAN OBTAIN ACCESS TO THE FIREARM."

Just my tryingtostopthestupidityofadultsfromkillingtheirchildren .02,
LeonCarr
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SQLGeek
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Re: 4yo kills self with grandmothers gun

Postby SQLGeek » Mon Sep 25, 2017 11:15 am

LeonCarr wrote:
Just my tryingtostopthestupidityofadultsfromkillingtheirchildren .02,
LeonCarr


I would think not wanting your little loved one to die would be deterrent enough. :confused5
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treadlightly
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Re: 4yo kills self with grandmothers gun

Postby treadlightly » Mon Sep 25, 2017 11:57 am

Thanks to the original poster. I forwarded the article to someone who may put too much trust in the notion of a "safe action."

I believe it was received in the right spirit.


rotor
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Re: 4yo kills self with grandmothers gun

Postby rotor » Mon Sep 25, 2017 2:37 pm

LeonCarr wrote:I have asked it before and I will ask it again.
snip

This is illegal at the federal level (please read that yellow pamphlet you get/are supposed to get when you purchase a firearm) and at the state level in most states, here is the statute in Texas:


Just my tryingtostopthestupidityofadultsfromkillingtheirchildren .02,
LeonCarr


I am not disagreeing with you but what federal law are you talking about? I think it is all state law and Florida has a law but I don't know if it covers this situation. Purse carry is a whole different issue. Holsters, safety, should their be one in the chamber, I don't know. Just got a little mouse gun and may pocket carry (auto) with a holster on rare occasion but I don't think I will have one in the chamber. As a grandfather I can't think of anything more horrific for these people than this loss of their grand baby. No punishment could be worse.


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Re: 4yo kills self with grandmothers gun

Postby Soccerdad1995 » Mon Sep 25, 2017 3:39 pm

This reminds me of my last trip to Cabelas. A guy was there with his wife and 5-6 year old son. He was looking for his first gun, and asked the clerk if it was possible to install a manual safety on a Glock because he really liked that gun but needed a manual safety in case his son picked up the gun. After a few questions from the clerk, it became clear that the guy planned to keep his loaded gun in his unlocked night stand and not in a safe. Thankfully, the clerk was very adamant that he needed to get some type of safe for the gun.
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LeonCarr
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Re: 4yo kills self with grandmothers gun

Postby LeonCarr » Mon Sep 25, 2017 3:42 pm

SQLGeek what you replied with is exactly what I am trying to say.

Sadly, in today's world where common sense is not very common, it sometimes takes citations, arrests, and confinement to instill it.

Mr. Rotor, the federal law is called the Youth Handgun Safety Act:

https://www.atf.gov/file/58806/download

Just my .02,
LeonCarr
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Re: 4yo kills self with grandmothers gun

Postby MechAg94 » Mon Sep 25, 2017 4:00 pm

Soccerdad1995 wrote:This reminds me of my last trip to Cabelas. A guy was there with his wife and 5-6 year old son. He was looking for his first gun, and asked the clerk if it was possible to install a manual safety on a Glock because he really liked that gun but needed a manual safety in case his son picked up the gun. After a few questions from the clerk, it became clear that the guy planned to keep his loaded gun in his unlocked night stand and not in a safe. Thankfully, the clerk was very adamant that he needed to get some type of safe for the gun.

Millions of kids have grown up with loaded guns in houses without safes. There are other ways to handle this, but all require a plan and commitment after recognition of the problem.


rotor
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Re: 4yo kills self with grandmothers gun

Postby rotor » Mon Sep 25, 2017 5:13 pm

LeonCarr wrote:SQLGeek what you replied with is exactly what I am trying to say.

Sadly, in today's world where common sense is not very common, it sometimes takes citations, arrests, and confinement to instill it.

Mr. Rotor, the federal law is called the Youth Handgun Safety Act:

https://www.atf.gov/file/58806/download

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

Where in that federal law was it illegal for not locking up a gun to keep it out of a child's hands? Upon which part of that law would the grandmother in Florida be guilty of? Just a question, not a debate. I believe Florida has such a law but the feds? The federal law has more to do with the transfer of a firearm to a minor I believe.


rotor
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Re: 4yo kills self with grandmothers gun

Postby rotor » Mon Sep 25, 2017 5:18 pm

MechAg94 wrote:
Soccerdad1995 wrote:This reminds me of my last trip to Cabelas. A guy was there with his wife and 5-6 year old son. He was looking for his first gun, and asked the clerk if it was possible to install a manual safety on a Glock because he really liked that gun but needed a manual safety in case his son picked up the gun. After a few questions from the clerk, it became clear that the guy planned to keep his loaded gun in his unlocked night stand and not in a safe. Thankfully, the clerk was very adamant that he needed to get some type of safe for the gun.

Millions of kids have grown up with loaded guns in houses without safes. There are other ways to handle this, but all require a plan and commitment after recognition of the problem.

Absolutely correct. Although I did not attend high school in Texas, my wife did and she said all of the guys had their rifles on a rack on the back of their pickups. This would obviously not fly today. My 11 year old grandson is very skillful with safe use of a gun. I don't think we are all safer with the present laws than we were in the past.

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RPBrown
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Re: 4yo kills self with grandmothers gun

Postby RPBrown » Tue Sep 26, 2017 8:28 am

rotor wrote:
MechAg94 wrote:
Soccerdad1995 wrote:This reminds me of my last trip to Cabelas. A guy was there with his wife and 5-6 year old son. He was looking for his first gun, and asked the clerk if it was possible to install a manual safety on a Glock because he really liked that gun but needed a manual safety in case his son picked up the gun. After a few questions from the clerk, it became clear that the guy planned to keep his loaded gun in his unlocked night stand and not in a safe. Thankfully, the clerk was very adamant that he needed to get some type of safe for the gun.

Millions of kids have grown up with loaded guns in houses without safes. There are other ways to handle this, but all require a plan and commitment after recognition of the problem.

Absolutely correct. Although I did not attend high school in Texas, my wife did and she said all of the guys had their rifles on a rack on the back of their pickups. This would obviously not fly today. My 11 year old grandson is very skillful with safe use of a gun. I don't think we are all safer with the present laws than we were in the past.


It still happens in very rural areas of the state. I frequently visit friends in west Texas (Big Spring) and most of the high school age boys in the smaller towns still have rifles or shot guns in a rack. However, I remember having one in my pick up when I was in high school in Fort Worth but that was a loooonnnng time ago.
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LeonCarr
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Re: 4yo kills self with grandmothers gun

Postby LeonCarr » Tue Sep 26, 2017 9:46 am

The Florida Law:

Title XLVI
CRIMES

Chapter 790
WEAPONS AND FIREARMS

790.174 Safe storage of firearms required.—
(1) A person who stores or leaves, on a premise under his or her control, a loaded firearm, as defined in s. 790.001, and who knows or reasonably should know that a minor is likely to gain access to the firearm without the lawful permission of the minor’s parent or the person having charge of the minor, or without the supervision required by law, shall keep the firearm in a securely locked box or container or in a location which a reasonable person would believe to be secure or shall secure it with a trigger lock, except when the person is carrying the firearm on his or her body or within such close proximity thereto that he or she can retrieve and use it as easily and quickly as if he or she carried it on his or her body.

(2) It is a misdemeanor of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083, if a person violates subsection (1) by failing to store or leave a firearm in the required manner and as a result thereof a minor gains access to the firearm, without the lawful permission of the minor’s parent or the person having charge of the minor, and possesses or exhibits it, without the supervision required by law:
(a) In a public place; or

(b) In a rude, careless, angry, or threatening manner in violation of s. 790.10.

This subsection does not apply if the minor obtains the firearm as a result of an unlawful entry by any person.

1(3) As used in this act, the term “minor” means any person under the age of 16.

On the ATF form I quoted earlier it states at the beginning of the document under number 2, "Safely storing and securing firearms away from children will help prevent the unlawful possession of handguns by juveniles, stop accidents, and save lives."

On a lighter note, the website The State Of Florida has where you can look up the laws and statutes is called "Online Sunshine".

:coolgleamA:

Just my .02,
LeonCarr
The Libertarian Conspiracy - To take over the government, and then leave you alone.


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