73 year old Florida woman shot dead in citizens police academy demonstration

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bblhd672
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Re: 73 year old Florida woman shot dead in citizens police academy demonstration

Postby bblhd672 » Wed Aug 10, 2016 10:54 am

SewTexas wrote:they only "excuse"....and I'm using that word very loosely. If if this was this officer's first time in front of an "audience"? and he was nervous? but even then clearing his weapon should be muscle memory, like folding towels.


There are no excuses for discharging a firearm at someone you didn't intend to.
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Re: 73 year old Florida woman shot dead in citizens police academy demonstration

Postby allisji » Wed Aug 10, 2016 11:18 am

baseballguy2001 wrote:I agree with other posters, the weapon was probably made 'safe' incorrectly. One of the first lessons learned when I got a semi auto, in order to make sure the gun is clear, drop the magazine first, then rack the slide open and check for a round. Certainly an LEO knows that too. Personal opinion here, somebody has to be held accountable. The State investigators will probably declare this a tragic accident, and the officer who pulled the trigger might wind up with a reprimand, or a serious blot on his career. In my opinion, it's a career ender at a minimum.



Curious if an accident like this could result in a criminal charge of "involuntary manslaughter" or some other kind of negligence change. The fact that this occurred during a training exercise to which the woman had agreed to participate in would likely rule out a manslaughter charge I would guess, but there likely is some other kind of unlawful discharge of a weapon charge that would apply correct?

Not saying that I think that the officer should or should not be charged, but how would be the appropriate way for him/her to be held accountable beyond ending of career?
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Re: 73 year old Florida woman shot dead in citizens police academy demonstration

Postby SewTexas » Wed Aug 10, 2016 11:22 am

bblhd672 wrote:
SewTexas wrote:they only "excuse"....and I'm using that word very loosely. If if this was this officer's first time in front of an "audience"? and he was nervous? but even then clearing his weapon should be muscle memory, like folding towels.


There are no excuses for discharging a firearm at someone you didn't intend to.



exactly. I'm just saying the "excuse" would be for the failure in clearing.

honestly they shouldn't be using real guns. why not use laser guns? so you know you've been "hit" when lit up? or something else? how else is this handled across the country?
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Re: 73 year old Florida woman shot dead in citizens police academy demonstration

Postby treadlightly » Wed Aug 10, 2016 11:25 am

I dry fire all the time, but I've started doing something I saw a Gander Mountain clerk do.

He seemed a little bit like one of those 'operator' types at first, but I decided he probably had a pretty good head on his shoulders. Here's a drill I shamelessly stole from him.

Retract and lock the slide back, observing the four big rules. Hold the gun close to my chest with the muzzle pointing in a safe direction down and to my left. Elevate the muzzle enough, following the four big rules, to allow viewing straight through the magazine well. Rock the muzzle back down, insert four big rules here, and sight into the chamber. Pause at each step, long enough to mutter to yourself, "no magazine," "no round in the chamber."

When I do that, I feel pretty safe as long as I consider it loaded and observe the other three big rules, too.

Pesky rules, there's never a free pass.

Prayers to the family of the deceased, and to the officer who will now live with a nightmare.


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Re: 73 year old Florida woman shot dead in citizens police academy demonstration

Postby Dave2 » Wed Aug 10, 2016 11:58 am

The Annoyed Man wrote:https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2016/08/10/woman-fatally-shot-in-accident-during-fla-citizen-police-academy-lethal-force-simulation/

Details of where she was shot and how a loaded gun came into play have not yet been released. The woman was attending a citizens police academy class in Punta Gorda, Florida. During a scenario simulation in which she played the victim, and the police officer played the bad guy, he shot her. She was rushed to a hospital and pronounced dead.

And the Charlotte Sun is reporting that she was shot "several times". I can't figure out why the officer wouldn't have stopped shooting as soon as the gun actually fired. Sad day all around.
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Re: 73 year old Florida woman shot dead in citizens police academy demonstration

Postby rotor » Wed Aug 10, 2016 12:40 pm

Our local citizen police academy allows participants to shoot "assault rifles" as part of the program so live ammo is used. This is just one of those things that should never happen but do. To err is human. No amount of training will ever reduce the risk of such things happening to zero. The poor woman dead, the police officer's life shattered. To err is human.


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Re: 73 year old Florida woman shot dead in citizens police academy demonstration

Postby mrvmax » Wed Aug 10, 2016 12:46 pm

Recently in the Friendswood crime blotter there was an incident where a local gun shop fired a round through the wall into the liquor store next door during a class. I don't have any details but what was given in the crime blotter so I don't know how it happened. The article did state this wasn't the first time a round had been fired through the wall. I don't care who it is or how much experience they have, nobody needs to violate the firearm safety rules. I would hope someone would stop me if I ever did and chew me out.

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Re: 73 year old Florida woman shot dead in citizens police academy demonstration

Postby parabelum » Wed Aug 10, 2016 12:48 pm

WildBill wrote:This is exactly why they make blue guns.
There is no reason to use a real firearm in this type of demonstration/training exercise.

Prayers for the woman and her family. RIP


This ^^^^

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Re: 73 year old Florida woman shot dead in citizens police academy demonstration

Postby Jusme » Wed Aug 10, 2016 1:12 pm

A similar situation occurred several years ago at an Arlington Police Academy training course (1990 I think) Where the training officer accidentally used a real gun instead of a blank firing training pistol, and shot a student in the head. I know negligent homicide charges were filed, but I don't remember the outcome.

Sad story all the way around, I know the officer would never have done something like that intentionally, but it's one of those mistakes that you can't go back and fix.
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Re: 73 year old Florida woman shot dead in citizens police academy demonstration

Postby LSUTiger » Wed Aug 10, 2016 1:39 pm

SewTexas wrote:they only "excuse"....and I'm using that word very loosely. If if this was this officer's first time in front of an "audience"? and he was nervous? but even then clearing his weapon should be muscle memory, like folding towels.



Nervous? That's no excuse. :mad5 An innocent unarmed citizen shot due to an incompetent police officer. Police officers volunteer to be entrusted with certain authority and ensure public safety, not jeopardize it, they need to be held to a higher standard. What happens when it's an officers first time in front of an audience and that audience happens to be people at the scene of a call?

I don't mind getting behind the blue, as long as I'm behind them, not in front of them.
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Re: 73 year old Florida woman shot dead in citizens police academy demonstration

Postby parabelum » Wed Aug 10, 2016 2:55 pm

MeMelYup wrote:
Beiruty wrote:While clearing and making gun safe. I speculate this what happened
He racked the pistol, eject a bullet BEFORE removing the magazine.
Removed the magazine and declared the pistol safe. It was Glock with no manual safety
And, the rest is will go in the annals of the news magazines.

Wouldn't have to be a Glock. A lot of firearms sold specifically to police don't have the no magazine lockout.


It was a revolver.

"Lewis said that the department was unaware that live ammunition existed for the revolver he also said he was not sure how the fact that the gun was loaded was missed. He said that it was the department's belief that only blanks were available to the officer using the weapon."

http://www.news-press.com/story/news/cr ... /88500140/

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Re: 73 year old Florida woman shot dead in citizens police academy demonstration

Postby sugar land dave » Wed Aug 10, 2016 9:16 pm

parabelum wrote:
MeMelYup wrote:
Beiruty wrote:"Lewis was not sure how the fact that the gun was loaded was missed."

That sounds chillingly like the famous words "thought it was unloaded". :tiphat:
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Re: 73 year old Florida woman shot dead in citizens police academy demonstration

Postby Embalmo » Wed Aug 10, 2016 11:09 pm

I'm sure many of us have children who know better than to make these mistakes.
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Re: 73 year old Florida woman shot dead in citizens police academy demonstration

Postby TexasTornado » Thu Aug 11, 2016 5:52 am

parabelum wrote:
MeMelYup wrote:
Beiruty wrote:While clearing and making gun safe. I speculate this what happened
He racked the pistol, eject a bullet BEFORE removing the magazine.
Removed the magazine and declared the pistol safe. It was Glock with no manual safety
And, the rest is will go in the annals of the news magazines.

Wouldn't have to be a Glock. A lot of firearms sold specifically to police don't have the no magazine lockout.


It was a revolver.

"Lewis said that the department was unaware that live ammunition existed for the revolver he also said he was not sure how the fact that the gun was loaded was missed. He said that it was the department's belief that only blanks were available to the officer using the weapon."

http://www.news-press.com/story/news/cr ... /88500140/


I've never seen or handled a blank, but would it look any different loaded into the weapon?

I can understand the additional drama/realism of using blanks, but I think we've shown here that it's an unneeded risk. Add the sound effects via some speakers if needed.
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Re: 73 year old Florida woman shot dead in citizens police academy demonstration

Postby Excaliber » Thu Aug 11, 2016 6:14 am

TexasTornado wrote:
parabelum wrote:
MeMelYup wrote:
Beiruty wrote:While clearing and making gun safe. I speculate this what happened
He racked the pistol, eject a bullet BEFORE removing the magazine.
Removed the magazine and declared the pistol safe. It was Glock with no manual safety
And, the rest is will go in the annals of the news magazines.

Wouldn't have to be a Glock. A lot of firearms sold specifically to police don't have the no magazine lockout.


It was a revolver.

"Lewis said that the department was unaware that live ammunition existed for the revolver he also said he was not sure how the fact that the gun was loaded was missed. He said that it was the department's belief that only blanks were available to the officer using the weapon."

http://www.news-press.com/story/news/cr ... /88500140/


I've never seen or handled a blank, but would it look any different loaded into the weapon?

I can understand the additional drama/realism of using blanks, but I think we've shown here that it's an unneeded risk. Add the sound effects via some speakers if needed.


There's a good possibility the officer didn't know the difference between a blank and a live round.

The use of blanks at close range can also cause very serious injury and should not have been even considered under the circumstances described.

Everyone involved in planning or approving this tragedy was woefully negligent and likely ignorant.
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