This is why you don't draw on a drawn gun!

So that others may learn.

Moderators: Keith B, Charles L. Cotton, carlson1

User avatar

Topic author
Paladin
Senior Member
Posts: 1826
Joined: Thu Dec 23, 2004 4:02 pm
Location: DFW

This is why you don't draw on a drawn gun!

Postby Paladin » Fri Dec 16, 2016 8:49 pm

WARNING! The following video is graphic showing a multiple shootings and a LEO fatality. WARNING!

This video shows what works and what in this instance did not work. It is my hope that members can learn from this video

WARNING! GRAPHIC

User avatar

Charles L. Cotton
Site Admin
Posts: 16390
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2004 9:31 pm
Location: Friendswood, TX
Contact:

Re: This is why you don't draw on a drawn gun!

Postby Charles L. Cotton » Fri Dec 16, 2016 9:03 pm

This is an excellent video. I don't like the age-old statement "don't draw on a drawn gun." That's far too broad. The second shooting that was successful was a situation where the good guy successfully drew on a drawn gun. It's far more accurate to state "don't draw on a drawn gun when you are the focus of attention." Even then, there are circumstances when that's the only option.

I'd bet the dead officer had a retention holster that cost him his life. As long as the thug took to shoot him, the officer might have lived with a non-retention holster.

Chas.
Image

User avatar

Beiruty
Senior Member
Posts: 8102
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2008 9:22 pm
Location: DFW, Texas

Re: This is why you don't draw on a drawn gun!

Postby Beiruty » Fri Dec 16, 2016 9:09 pm

I agree, In the first example, the highest priority was to get out of the X AND disarm the bad guy and/or hold the Pistol Muzzle and pointed away from you. The police tried to push forward, he should have kept with his strategy and ram the bad guy and turn behind him and try to disarm him.
In the second example, the shot was way too close. The hostage could have been shot in the face. However, the strategy worked, distract, draw, and return fire.

That being said, in the first example, the adrenaline dump was high that the LEO has narrowed tunnel vision and "less time to think".
Oh, it is not graphic.... no gore, no blood, and it is a grainy video.
Last edited by Beiruty on Fri Dec 16, 2016 9:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Beiruty,
United we stand, dispersed we falter
2014: NRA Endowment member


WTR
Senior Member
Posts: 892
Joined: Mon Nov 16, 2015 10:41 pm

Re: This is why you don't draw on a drawn gun!

Postby WTR » Fri Dec 16, 2016 9:11 pm

Seems like one needs a dose of common sense and to not over estimate one's abilities.

User avatar

Topic author
Paladin
Senior Member
Posts: 1826
Joined: Thu Dec 23, 2004 4:02 pm
Location: DFW

Re: This is why you don't draw on a drawn gun!

Postby Paladin » Fri Dec 16, 2016 9:55 pm

Personally I would have gone for the disarm in the first officer's situation, but to be confident of a disarm does require proper disarm training.

User avatar

Beiruty
Senior Member
Posts: 8102
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2008 9:22 pm
Location: DFW, Texas

Re: This is why you don't draw on a drawn gun!

Postby Beiruty » Fri Dec 16, 2016 10:04 pm

Paladin wrote:Personally I would have gone for the disarm in the first officer's situation, but to be confident of a disarm does require proper disarm training.

On Auto-pilot mode, your "inner-brain" would take over. Survivalism mode is ON.
Beiruty,
United we stand, dispersed we falter
2014: NRA Endowment member

User avatar

Topic author
Paladin
Senior Member
Posts: 1826
Joined: Thu Dec 23, 2004 4:02 pm
Location: DFW

Re: This is why you don't draw on a drawn gun!

Postby Paladin » Fri Dec 16, 2016 10:57 pm

Beiruty wrote:
Paladin wrote:Personally I would have gone for the disarm in the first officer's situation, but to be confident of a disarm does require proper disarm training.

On Auto-pilot mode, your "inner-brain" would take over. Survivalism mode is ON.


Certainly the officers action appear to demonstrate a gun focused training, where he focused on attempting to get his gun out of his holster as opposed to taking other action. Having experienced a retention holster not wanting to let go of my gun at in-opportune times I can sympathize with him. You really have to train with retention holsters under stress to find out what you need to do to reliably draw your gun under duress.

My auto-pilot doesn't have a gun focus, but that takes substantial training.

User avatar

Bitter Clinger
Senior Member
Posts: 1387
Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2014 5:16 pm
Location: North Dallas

Re: This is why you don't draw on a drawn gun!

Postby Bitter Clinger » Sat Dec 17, 2016 9:54 am

Paladin wrote:Personally I would have gone for the disarm in the first officer's situation, but to be confident of a disarm does require proper disarm training.


:iagree: Failure to control the weapon in that close quarters situation is a training issue.
"You may all go to Chicago, and I will go to Texas." - Davy Crockett
"Fast is fine, but accuracy is everything." - Wyatt Earp
NRA Life Member
לעולם לא תשכח

User avatar

ELB
Senior Member
Posts: 5490
Joined: Tue May 22, 2007 9:34 pm
Location: Seguin

Re: This is why you don't draw on a drawn gun!

Postby ELB » Sat Dec 17, 2016 11:36 am

Beiruty wrote:
Paladin wrote:Personally I would have gone for the disarm in the first officer's situation, but to be confident of a disarm does require proper disarm training.

On Auto-pilot mode, your "inner-brain" would take over. Survivalism mode is ON.


That's why you train. You can train your "inner brain", but it takes time andwork.
USAF 1982-2005
____________
The Most Interesting Texan in the World. :txflag:

User avatar

Beiruty
Senior Member
Posts: 8102
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2008 9:22 pm
Location: DFW, Texas

Re: This is why you don't draw on a drawn gun!

Postby Beiruty » Sat Dec 17, 2016 4:47 pm

ELB wrote:
Beiruty wrote:
Paladin wrote:Personally I would have gone for the disarm in the first officer's situation, but to be confident of a disarm does require proper disarm training.

On Auto-pilot mode, your "inner-brain" would take over. Survivalism mode is ON.


That's why you train. You can train your "inner brain", but it takes time and work.

:iagree: :iagree: :iagree:
Sweat saves blood
Beiruty,
United we stand, dispersed we falter
2014: NRA Endowment member


RossA
Senior Member
Posts: 762
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2007 1:45 pm
Location: Houston, Republic of Texas
Contact:

Re: This is why you don't draw on a drawn gun!

Postby RossA » Wed Jan 04, 2017 1:42 pm

I agree that saying "don't draw on a drawn gun" is far too broad and general. If someone has a gun on me, and I am convinced that I am about to be shot anyway, what do I have to lose by going down fighting?
God and the soldier we adore,
In times of danger, not before.
The danger gone, the trouble righted,
God's forgotten, the soldier slighted.

User avatar

bblhd672
Senior Member
Posts: 2155
Joined: Mon Jun 06, 2016 10:43 am
Location: DFW, TX

Re: This is why you don't draw on a drawn gun!

Postby bblhd672 » Wed Jan 04, 2017 1:59 pm

This lady didn't read the rule about not drawing on a drawn gun:
http://abc13.com/news/pistol-packing-granny-scares-off-armed-intruder/1685244/
NRA Life Member, TSRA Member
“The consolidation of the states into one vast empire, sure to be aggressive abroad and despotic at home, will be the certain precursor of ruin which has overwhelmed all that preceded it.” Robert E. Lee


MechAg94
Senior Member
Posts: 1288
Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2008 10:28 pm

Re: This is why you don't draw on a drawn gun!

Postby MechAg94 » Wed Jan 04, 2017 2:33 pm

RossA wrote:I agree that saying "don't draw on a drawn gun" is far too broad and general. If someone has a gun on me, and I am convinced that I am about to be shot anyway, what do I have to lose by going down fighting?

And based on a lot of the self defense stories I see, many criminals are using fake guns, unloaded guns, or just don't have any idea how to use a gun. You still need to be careful and use distraction and movement as best you can.

User avatar

nightmare69
Senior Member
Posts: 1953
Joined: Thu Feb 21, 2013 9:03 pm
Location: East Texas

Re: This is why you don't draw on a drawn gun!

Postby nightmare69 » Wed Jan 04, 2017 2:42 pm

Charles L. Cotton wrote:I'd bet the dead officer had a retention holster that cost him his life. As long as the thug took to shoot him, the officer might have lived with a non-retention holster.

Chas.



In this particular situation, yes. The officer may still be living or gotten a shot off having an non-retention holster. When you're fighting for you life with someone bigger and stronger than you, a good level 3 holster can save your life. I believe the pros outway the cons on retention holsters. I practice my draw weekly for a reason.
2/26-Mailed paper app and packet.
5/20-Plastic in hand.
83 days mailbox to mailbox.

User avatar

ELB
Senior Member
Posts: 5490
Joined: Tue May 22, 2007 9:34 pm
Location: Seguin

Re: This is why you don't draw on a drawn gun!

Postby ELB » Wed Jan 04, 2017 2:43 pm

MechAg94 wrote:
RossA wrote:I agree that saying "don't draw on a drawn gun" is far too broad and general. If someone has a gun on me, and I am convinced that I am about to be shot anyway, what do I have to lose by going down fighting?

And based on a lot of the self defense stories I see, many criminals are using fake guns, unloaded guns, or just don't have any idea how to use a gun. You still need to be careful and use distraction and movement as best you can.


Using almost 5,000 newspaper stories, Clayton Cramer and a couple other guys produced some interesting statistics about citizens' defensive use of firearms. One of them was that out of 338 cases where a person wielding a gun was disarmed, only 11 times was it the good guy who was disarmed. In the other 227 cases the bad guy started out armed with a gun, and his would-be victim took it away. In one of the 11 cases where the good guy was disarmed, the homeowner had a rifle, which a bad guy got away from him. So the homeowner drew his pistol and shot the bad guy.
USAF 1982-2005
____________
The Most Interesting Texan in the World. :txflag:


Return to “Never Again!!”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests