Army Ranger Charged with Assault for Shooting Fellow Soldier

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TexDotCom
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Army Ranger Charged with Assault for Shooting Fellow Soldier

Postby TexDotCom » Wed Feb 15, 2017 5:08 pm

http://www.military.com/daily-news/2017/02/14/army-ranger-charged-assault-shooting-fellow-soldier.html?ESRC=army-a_170215.nl

A Ranger was allegedly playing around with the weapon, pointed it at a fellow Soldier, and pulled the trigger. The fellow Soldier is now barely clinging to life. :mad5 :banghead: :mad5 :banghead:
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Re: Army Ranger Charged with Assault for Shooting Fellow Soldier

Postby The Annoyed Man » Wed Feb 15, 2017 5:21 pm

TexDotCom wrote:http://www.military.com/daily-news/2017/02/14/army-ranger-charged-assault-shooting-fellow-soldier.html?ESRC=army-a_170215.nl

A Ranger was allegedly playing around with the weapon, pointed it at a fellow Soldier, and pulled the trigger. The fellow Soldier is now barely clinging to life. :mad5 :banghead: :mad5 :banghead:

The guy has his ranger tab, and he "didn't know it was loaded"? Either he's lying, or they were drunk, or something like that.
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Re: Army Ranger Charged with Assault for Shooting Fellow Soldier

Postby MechAg94 » Thu Feb 16, 2017 10:42 am

He wouldn't be the first person to assume a gun is unloaded after pulling out the magazine. He won't be the last either.

The sadder part is he chose to test his ignorance after pointing the gun at someone else.


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Re: Army Ranger Charged with Assault for Shooting Fellow Soldier

Postby flechero » Thu Feb 16, 2017 11:07 am

I still gasp every time I read of someone pointing a gun at another and pulling the trigger... if not in a controlled environment and the gun isn't blue or airsoft- DON'T DO THAT! :banghead:

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Re: Army Ranger Charged with Assault for Shooting Fellow Soldier

Postby 3dfxMM » Thu Mar 02, 2017 11:33 am

The Annoyed Man wrote:
TexDotCom wrote:http://www.military.com/daily-news/2017/02/14/army-ranger-charged-assault-shooting-fellow-soldier.html?ESRC=army-a_170215.nl

A Ranger was allegedly playing around with the weapon, pointed it at a fellow Soldier, and pulled the trigger. The fellow Soldier is now barely clinging to life. :mad5 :banghead: :mad5 :banghead:

The guy has his ranger tab, and he "didn't know it was loaded"? Either he's lying, or they were drunk, or something like that.


You are jumping to a conclusion. I didn't see anything in the article about him having his Ranger tab.


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Re: Army Ranger Charged with Assault for Shooting Fellow Soldier

Postby flechero » Thu Mar 02, 2017 11:52 am

Associated Press | 14 Feb 2017

OLYMPIA, Wash. — An Army Ranger.....


Can you be a Ranger w/o a Ranger tab?

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Re: Army Ranger Charged with Assault for Shooting Fellow Soldier

Postby The Annoyed Man » Thu Mar 02, 2017 12:09 pm

3dfxMM wrote:
The Annoyed Man wrote:
TexDotCom wrote:http://www.military.com/daily-news/2017/02/14/army-ranger-charged-assault-shooting-fellow-soldier.html?ESRC=army-a_170215.nl

A Ranger was allegedly playing around with the weapon, pointed it at a fellow Soldier, and pulled the trigger. The fellow Soldier is now barely clinging to life. :mad5 :banghead: :mad5 :banghead:

The guy has his ranger tab, and he "didn't know it was loaded"? Either he's lying, or they were drunk, or something like that.


You are jumping to a conclusion. I didn't see anything in the article about him having his Ranger tab.

Maybe I'm jumping to the conclusion that if one is a Ranger, one has a Ranger tab? The article identifies the shooter as a Ranger. So either the article is lying about the shooter being a Ranger, or it is possible for one to be a Ranger without having a Ranger tab. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Just going by what I read. Is it possible to be infantry assigned to a Ranger battalion and (A) not BE a Ranger, and (B) not HAVE a Ranger tab? Not arguing.....just a sincere question. I am assuming that one does not get assigned to a Ranger battalion unless one has passed the RASP. But I confess to being a bit confused. Does passing RASP still not mean a tab?......

http://www.military.com/special-operations/joining-the-army-rangers.html
All Rangers volunteer to become members of the 75th Ranger Regiment and complete the rigorous Ranger Assessment and Selection Program, known as RASP, to join the ranks of this elite U.S. Army Special Operations Command unit.

Lower enlisted Soldiers and Sergeants attend RASP 1, an eight-week course that trains Soldiers in the basic skills and tactics required to operate in the 75th Ranger Regiment. Upon completion of this course, Rangers have the essential skills, training, and confidence to be members of the 75th Ranger Regiment. Officers, Warrant Officers and senior noncommissioned officers (Staff Sgt. through Command Sgt. Maj.) must attend RASP 2, a three-week course focused on selecting the best leadership from across the Army.

All sergeants and above in the 75th Ranger Regiment must be Ranger qualified, meaning that they have successfully completed the U.S. Army Ranger School at Fort Benning, Ga., the Army's premier leadership school. Newly assigned Rangers of the 75th Ranger Regiment typically attend Ranger School after multiple combat deployments and training cycles – before they become Sergeants.

Does that mean that you can be assigned to a Ranger battalion, have multiple deployments, and STILL not have the tab?

Even so, I would expect someone who passes RASP to have the basic firearms skills required to operate in the regiment......and that would include not pointing a gun at someone and pulling the trigger, killing him, and then later claiming that he didn't know the gun was loaded.

My apologies if I offended anyone who is/was a Ranger, and who possesses the tab. No insult was meant or implied.
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Re: Army Ranger Charged with Assault for Shooting Fellow Soldier

Postby Skiprr » Thu Mar 02, 2017 12:16 pm

A different news article with more local references: http://www.thenewstribune.com/news/local/crime/article132531999.html

Popek is assigned to the 2nd Battalion, 75th Ranger Regiment, and has been assigned to JBLM [Joint Base Lewis–McChord, result of the 2010 merger of the Army's Fort Lewis and USAF McChord AFB] regiment spokesman Maj. Tony Mayne said.

The wounded soldier is a specialist assigned to the 2nd Battalion, 1st Infantry Regiment, 7th Infantry Division spokesman Lt. Col. Fred Williams said....

One witness said Popek had returned to JBLM from a deployment five days earlier.
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Re: Army Ranger Charged with Assault for Shooting Fellow Soldier

Postby AF-Odin » Thu Mar 02, 2017 12:25 pm

Deal with folks every day that have a Ranger Tab and not all of them are the sharpest knife in the drawer. Fantastic training, pushes you to your limit, but there are still some that make it through that I would not want behind me with a loaded weapon.
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Re: Army Ranger Charged with Assault for Shooting Fellow Soldier

Postby 3dfxMM » Thu Mar 02, 2017 12:34 pm

The Annoyed Man wrote:
3dfxMM wrote:
The Annoyed Man wrote:
TexDotCom wrote:http://www.military.com/daily-news/2017/02/14/army-ranger-charged-assault-shooting-fellow-soldier.html?ESRC=army-a_170215.nl

A Ranger was allegedly playing around with the weapon, pointed it at a fellow Soldier, and pulled the trigger. The fellow Soldier is now barely clinging to life. :mad5 :banghead: :mad5 :banghead:

The guy has his ranger tab, and he "didn't know it was loaded"? Either he's lying, or they were drunk, or something like that.


You are jumping to a conclusion. I didn't see anything in the article about him having his Ranger tab.

Maybe I'm jumping to the conclusion that if one is a Ranger, one has a Ranger tab? The article identifies the shooter as a Ranger. So either the article is lying about the shooter being a Ranger, or it is possible for one to be a Ranger without having a Ranger tab. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Just going by what I read. Is it possible to be infantry assigned to a Ranger battalion and (A) not BE a Ranger, and (B) not HAVE a Ranger tab? Not arguing.....just a sincere question. I am assuming that one does not get assigned to a Ranger battalion unless one has passed the RASP. But I confess to being a bit confused. Does passing RASP still not mean a tab?......

http://www.military.com/special-operations/joining-the-army-rangers.html
All Rangers volunteer to become members of the 75th Ranger Regiment and complete the rigorous Ranger Assessment and Selection Program, known as RASP, to join the ranks of this elite U.S. Army Special Operations Command unit.

Lower enlisted Soldiers and Sergeants attend RASP 1, an eight-week course that trains Soldiers in the basic skills and tactics required to operate in the 75th Ranger Regiment. Upon completion of this course, Rangers have the essential skills, training, and confidence to be members of the 75th Ranger Regiment. Officers, Warrant Officers and senior noncommissioned officers (Staff Sgt. through Command Sgt. Maj.) must attend RASP 2, a three-week course focused on selecting the best leadership from across the Army.

All sergeants and above in the 75th Ranger Regiment must be Ranger qualified, meaning that they have successfully completed the U.S. Army Ranger School at Fort Benning, Ga., the Army's premier leadership school. Newly assigned Rangers of the 75th Ranger Regiment typically attend Ranger School after multiple combat deployments and training cycles – before they become Sergeants.

Does that mean that you can be assigned to a Ranger battalion, have multiple deployments, and STILL not have the tab?

Even so, I would expect someone who passes RASP to have the basic firearms skills required to operate in the regiment......and that would include not pointing a gun at someone and pulling the trigger, killing him, and then later claiming that he didn't know the gun was loaded.

My apologies if I offended anyone who is/was a Ranger, and who possesses the tab. No insult was meant or implied.


Being a Ranger and having the Ranger tab are independent of each other. Only those who are or have served in one of the Ranger battalions are Rangers. Earning the Ranger tab by graduating from Ranger School makes a Soldier Ranger qualified, but it does not make the Soldier a Ranger.

Yes, a Ranger can go on multiple deployments without having earned their tab. In fact, having multiple deployments can make it hard to fit Ranger School in.

Sorry for being so pedantic. It's one of my pet peeves. Not as big a one as the misuse of the term Special Forces, aka Green Berets. There is only one entity that is called that, the U.S. Army Special Forces. Rangers, SEALs, PJs, and several other units are special operations units, not Special Forces. No, I am not, nor have I ever been any one of these, but my son was an 18C in 1st SFG(A) and 19th SFG(A). He is no longer in the Army.

Circling back, any Solder who is in a Ranger battalion and/or who has made it successfully through Ranger School should definitely know better than to assume a weapon is unloaded. Actually, just saying any Soldier would suffice.

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Re: Army Ranger Charged with Assault for Shooting Fellow Soldier

Postby The Annoyed Man » Thu Mar 02, 2017 12:52 pm

3dfxMM wrote:Being a Ranger and having the Ranger tab are independent of each other. Only those who are or have served in one of the Ranger battalions are Rangers. Earning the Ranger tab by graduating from Ranger School makes a Soldier Ranger qualified, but it does not make the Soldier a Ranger.

Yes, a Ranger can go on multiple deployments without having earned their tab. In fact, having multiple deployments can make it hard to fit Ranger School in.

Sorry for being so pedantic. It's one of my pet peeves. Not as big a one as the misuse of the term Special Forces, aka Green Berets. There is only one entity that is called that, the U.S. Army Special Forces. Rangers, SEALs, PJs, and several other units are special operations units, not Special Forces. No, I am not, nor have I ever been any one of these, but my son was an 18C in 1st SFG(A) and 19th SFG(A). He is no longer in the Army.

Circling back, any Solder who is in a Ranger battalion and/or who has made it successfully through Ranger School should definitely know better than to assume a weapon is unloaded. Actually, just saying any Soldier would suffice.

Thanks for the explanation. I was aware that Special Forces is a distinct unit, not a general classification like special operations.

Your answer leaves me with another question.......Other than rank, since the article I quoted above says that Sargeants and above are required to attend Ranger School, is someone who has earned a Ranger tab any more or less qualified in combat arms than someone who has passed RASP1 and served in a Ranger battalion, or is it primarily a leadership course?
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Re: Army Ranger Charged with Assault for Shooting Fellow Soldier

Postby G26ster » Thu Mar 02, 2017 1:17 pm

The Annoyed Man wrote:Your answer leaves me with another question.......Other than rank, since the article I quoted above says that Sargeants and above are required to attend Ranger School, is someone who has earned a Ranger tab any more or less qualified in combat arms than someone who has passed RASP1 and served in a Ranger battalion, or is it primarily a leadership course?


Army Ranger School is much more then a leadership course.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ranger_School

In RVN, I flew gunship support numerous times for 1/75th Ranger Battalion Their missions were the most dangerous of any of those I flew, and in the most dangerous areas, and I'd have to say IMHO they were some "really bad dudes." When I was hospitalized at Ft. Benning GA back in the '60's. our ward was full of guys from the Ranger school. Some pretty serious injuries. It's one tough course. Graduation rate is about 50%.

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Re: Army Ranger Charged with Assault for Shooting Fellow Soldier

Postby bblhd672 » Thu Mar 02, 2017 1:19 pm

AF-Odin wrote:Deal with folks every day that have a Ranger Tab and not all of them are the sharpest knife in the drawer. Fantastic training, pushes you to your limit, but there are still some that make it through that I would not want behind me with a loaded weapon.


This is true of just about any organization in the military. People are capable of passing the training and qualification - but that doesn't change the fact they are morons. I served with a few in the Submarine Service who were qualified in Submarines, but totally devoid of honor, loyalty and common sense.
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Re: Army Ranger Charged with Assault for Shooting Fellow Soldier

Postby Mike S » Thu Mar 02, 2017 2:11 pm

The Annoyed Man wrote:Your answer leaves me with another question.......Other than rank, since the article I quoted above says that Sargeants and above are required to attend Ranger School, is someone who has earned a Ranger tab any more or less qualified in combat arms than someone who has passed RASP1 and served in a Ranger battalion, or is it primarily a leadership course?


I'd characterize Ranger School as a prolonged 'gut check' on one's intestinal fortitude, while learning Small Unit Tactics and being graded in leadership positions. Almost everyone who goes through Ranger School comes from/returns to a conventional unit.

RASP is a whole different kind of gut check; it's designed to select those few (with or without a Ranger Tab) that have the attributes to be actually assigned to the 75th Ranger Regiment. Being assigned to a Ranger BN is much more challenging (and rewarding) than a regular/conventional unit, and the standards of training, fitness, & conduct are much higher.

With this context, I'd assert that someone who's been in a Ranger BN for any length of time would be a more capable Soldier, especially when it comes to weapons handling.

Keep in mind, though, that not everyone in Ranger BN (or graduates of Ranger School) are 'combat arms'. As a battalion they have the usual assortment of support personnel (personnel clerks; intel; supply; cooks; mechanics; etc). While all of these also must now go through RASP, and receive much more combat-arms style training than they would receive in a conventional assignment, they're still not grunts fastroping to assault a target in Afghanistan.

Either way, a moment of stupidity has definitely wrecked two lives. Regardless of whether or not he had a Tab, or how many deployments he's been on. Praying for both of them.
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Re: Army Ranger Charged with Assault for Shooting Fellow Soldier

Postby E.Marquez » Thu Mar 02, 2017 2:55 pm

The Annoyed Man wrote: Is it possible to be infantry assigned to a Ranger battalion and (A) not BE a Ranger, and (B) not HAVE a Ranger tab?


Technically yes, but it would be rare and not for long.
In any case, from others sources,, Yes Spc. Thomas Patrick Popek is tabbed, and the 75th Ranger Regiment.
The Service member shot was not...he was assigned to 2nd Battalion, 1st Infantry Regiment, 7th Infantry Division.
Likely no more than a complacency issue... too much time with weapons too little respect for them and professionalism.
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