First time as a civilian drawing my weapon preparing to engage

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oljames3
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Re: First time as a civilian drawing my weapon preparing to engage

Postby oljames3 » Mon Aug 21, 2017 12:13 pm

Excaliber wrote:In my experience, anyone who ignores verbal and universally understood hand signals to stop approaching has shown himself to be a threat and must be treated as such.

One of my handgun instructors had to make that decision. In the early morning dark, an intruder broke down his front door. As he relates, he gave the "international" signal to get out; pointing a handgun and yelling (three times) "get the ... out of my house!" The intruder advanced and died. Verbal commands do not always work and we must be prepared to follow through to protect ourselves and those for whom we are responsible.

I'm happy that the OP's instance worked out better.
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E.Marquez
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Re: First time as a civilian drawing my weapon preparing to engage

Postby E.Marquez » Mon Aug 21, 2017 1:22 pm

I'm happy that the OP's instance worked out better.


I've played the event back copious times now, I don't "THINK" I missed anything, and I don't "THINK" I should have done something different. I don't "THINK" there was a threat I missed.
Any number of variables to what did happen would have put me more on the defensive. Had I not chose the stopping point.
Had i not been able to clearly see in the vehicle or had they maneuver in such a way i was no longer able to observe them AND the vehicle in the center of my vision. IF IF IF....
So I guess cautious but prepared... plan for the worse, hope for the best kind of a thing. What is that quote often attributed to Gen Mattis "Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet."
Last edited by E.Marquez on Tue Aug 22, 2017 2:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: First time as a civilian drawing my weapon preparing to engage

Postby RHenriksen » Mon Aug 21, 2017 2:46 pm

Excaliber wrote:
cmgee67 wrote:You did just fine. From what I can read you were being a Good Samaritan and trying to help a couple guys. #1 your already a little nervous because you don't know these guys from Adam and you don't know their intent. #2 they started approaching yohndu and would not obey your command to STOP! They kept coming and and you feared for your safety. That's the perfect example for why we all carry. Nobody was hurt or had to be carried to the hospital and the only damage done was the pee running down their legs.


In my experience, anyone who ignores verbal and universally understood hand signals to stop approaching has shown himself to be a threat and must be treated as such.


Amen - in the same way that the victim selection process is a multi-step, escalating evaluation, we have to use similar tests to assess a threat. People ignoring commands and gestures ratchets my threat assessment up very quickly.
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Re: First time as a civilian drawing my weapon preparing to engage

Postby LeonCarr » Wed Aug 23, 2017 8:51 am

I agree with the OP and Excaliber.

If the universal language of stop/halt/alto/talk to the hand is not understood, the universal language of muzzle pointed towards the threat comes next.

Just my .02,
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Re: First time as a civilian drawing my weapon preparing to engage

Postby The Annoyed Man » Wed Aug 23, 2017 11:20 am

E.Marquez wrote:
KC5AV wrote:There have been times that I've stopped to render assistance to somebody on the side of the road, and there are times I've just driven on. There have been plenty of cases where a 'break down' has been used to facilitate a carjacking. I will typically assess the situation as I drive up. Is the person male or female? Young or old? Is the vehicle close to cover where another person could be hiding? Are the temperatures extremely hot of cold? Does that voice in the back of my head tell me something smells fishy? All of that, and more, usually determine whether I will stop.

Absolutely....in this day and age of cell phones, instant communication, availability of wrecker service, ect Im not apt to stop for every broken down car on the side of the road..
Limited cell coverage, bad weather, accident, sure....
Of all the car side of the road scenarios that red flag the most for me it is that single female looking hapless next to her car in the dark....
"Look Im helpless, come save me, never mind you can not see into the dark what is just over there in the grass"
I'll call 911 and report it in a heart beat....if I have a clear line of sight all around the vehicle I might stop well back and assess the situation, drive up with some lateral space and speak to her though a partially open window, doors locked, weapon out, but out of sight.

I was just thinking about this stuff the other day. My son just bought a new (to him) pickup truck and installed a CB radio in it, which has a "megaphone" function built into it. I was considering getting one like it for myself. It occurs to me that, with such a setup, if you pull over at night to help someone, and you park behind them a little ways, you can use the CB's megaphone function to tell them to stay by their vehicle, to not approach yours, and that you are calling 911 for assistance for them, and that you will leave when that assistance arrives........or something like that.

As I've aged and gotten less physically able, I find myself less and less willing to insert myself into those kinds of situations. I used to think nothing of it. But we don't live in the same world today as we did then.
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Re: First time as a civilian drawing my weapon preparing to engage

Postby Jusme » Wed Aug 23, 2017 12:14 pm

The Annoyed Man wrote:
E.Marquez wrote:
KC5AV wrote:There have been times that I've stopped to render assistance to somebody on the side of the road, and there are times I've just driven on. There have been plenty of cases where a 'break down' has been used to facilitate a carjacking. I will typically assess the situation as I drive up. Is the person male or female? Young or old? Is the vehicle close to cover where another person could be hiding? Are the temperatures extremely hot of cold? Does that voice in the back of my head tell me something smells fishy? All of that, and more, usually determine whether I will stop.

Absolutely....in this day and age of cell phones, instant communication, availability of wrecker service, ect Im not apt to stop for every broken down car on the side of the road..
Limited cell coverage, bad weather, accident, sure....
Of all the car side of the road scenarios that red flag the most for me it is that single female looking hapless next to her car in the dark....
"Look Im helpless, come save me, never mind you can not see into the dark what is just over there in the grass"
I'll call 911 and report it in a heart beat....if I have a clear line of sight all around the vehicle I might stop well back and assess the situation, drive up with some lateral space and speak to her though a partially open window, doors locked, weapon out, but out of sight.

I was just thinking about this stuff the other day. My son just bought a new (to him) pickup truck and installed a CB radio in it, which has a "megaphone" function built into it. I was considering getting one like it for myself. It occurs to me that, with such a setup, if you pull over at night to help someone, and you park behind them a little ways, you can use the CB's megaphone function to tell them to stay by their vehicle, to not approach yours, and that you are calling 911 for assistance for them, and that you will leave when that assistance arrives........or something like that.

As I've aged and gotten less physically able, I find myself less and less willing to insert myself into those kinds of situations. I used to think nothing of it. But we don't live in the same world today as we did then.



That's a good idea, I had forgotten about a megaphone, but I had one on my truck back in the 70's when I had a CB radio. As well as one on the patrol cars. You can install just the megaphone if you want. I may look into one. :thumbs2:
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Re: First time as a civilian drawing my weapon preparing to engage

Postby priusron » Wed Aug 23, 2017 9:21 pm

Tow people don't need to exit the vehicle to ask directions, especially going in different directions. The "I am lost" ruse is just their way to escape a bad situation. Luckily they stopped and you did not have to use your weapon.

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Re: First time as a civilian drawing my weapon preparing to engage

Postby E.Marquez » Thu Aug 24, 2017 2:23 am

priusron wrote:Tow people don't need to exit the vehicle to ask directions, especially going in different directions.

Good point, though I suppose the same reason I and a friend would have gotten out had I had a friend with me that night/...might be they same reason they both did....because you never know, and back up? Had my son been with me, we would have both exited the truck...taking 12~6 and 6~12.
My wife would have moved to the drivers seat , drawn and observed... a friend I have trained with, exited with me, an acquaintance of a non trained friend I would have asked to remain in the truck...phone out and 91 ....dialed

Or perhaps it was as simple as the hope that with both listening and asking.... one will understand what the gringo is saying and you can be on your way....? :biggrinjester:
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Re: First time as a civilian drawing my weapon preparing to engage

Postby karder » Fri Sep 22, 2017 11:47 am

I'm like you in that I will stop and assist anyone who asks. This is definitely an unusual circumstance. If I was lost and needed directions, I would go to a convenience store, not try and wave someone down in an intersection. Also, two guys don't need to ask directions. It sounds like an attempted carjacking to me. I think your response was appropriate, otherwise your truck would probably be working for the cartel right now.
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