Remove S.A / NSA restrictions

What should be on the 2007 agenda for CHL's?

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tomneal
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Remove S.A / NSA restrictions

Postby tomneal » Tue Aug 02, 2005 2:13 am

Remove S.A / NSA restrictions

This isn't a huge deal to me but...
I don't see the need for this.
It reminds me of states that require the SN of the gun(s) that you carry.


To all those folks that think Revolvers are 100% reliable...
One of my shooting buddies dropped his S&W 610 with the cylinder open. The gun was completly unfireable until his gunsmith fixed it.
See you at the range
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dws1117
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Postby dws1117 » Tue Aug 02, 2005 6:59 am

I agree that this seems like a useless provision. Why was this put in the original legislation?

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Postby HighVelocity » Tue Aug 02, 2005 7:52 am

I actually think this should stay. If a person wants to carry a more complicated pistol then that person should demonstrate that they're capable of safely operating it.
Just because the majority of us on this forum find it simple and second nature doesn't mean the population as a whole has the same knowledge.

If you qualify with a semi auto then it stands to reason that you're capable of safely handling a revolver. The opposite is not true imho.

Would you want your significant other carrying a pistol for protection that they don't know how to operate? Of course not but people do it.

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Alaska Carry

Postby tomneal » Tue Aug 02, 2005 9:19 am

Again

My goal is Alaska Carry

This is a step along the way.


Here is a senerio to consider.

A new shooter get a CHL using the only handgun they own. A Revolver.
Time passes and they realize that a Semi-Auto may be better for them.

Can you answer this question?
Hey Mr. ShootsALot, how do I convert my NSA CHL to a SA CHL?

Short of waiting until it's time to renew.
I can't answer the question.
See you at the range
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Why was this put in the original legislation?

Postby tomneal » Tue Aug 02, 2005 9:21 am

Why was this put in the original legislation?


Probable to make the law more complicated so as to discurage participation.
See you at the range
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HighVelocity
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Postby HighVelocity » Tue Aug 02, 2005 9:45 am

Actually you CAN get it changed and you don't have to renew the whole thing.
You simply have to pay some money, fill out a form and qualify with an auto. I don't recall the specifics but we talked about it in my CHL class.

Can you answer this question?
Hey Mr. ShootsALot, how do I convert my NSA CHL to a SA CHL?


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Postby ElGato » Tue Aug 02, 2005 12:17 pm

All you have to retake is the range ( shooting ) part of the class with a semi and we give you a TR 100 showing that you passed, that is sent to the DPS with 25.00 to change your license.
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Postby KBCraig » Thu Aug 04, 2005 12:50 am

HighVelocity wrote:I actually think this should stay. If a person wants to carry a more complicated pistol then that person should demonstrate that they're capable of safely operating it.


In terms of complexity, a 1911 and a SAA are pretty close (some might rightly argue that the SAA is more complex). Likewise for a bobbed DAO revolver, and a Glock.

The current SA/NA scheme assumes that someone who can operate a bobbed DAO revolver can't operate a Glock (or Kahr, or P89DAO, etc.). Likewise, it assumes that someone who can operate a Glock, etc., can master a 1911 or any other, more complex, SA.

*feh*

The proficiency test is just that: a test of shooting proficiency. It's not a test of mastery of the particular firearm. If that was the issue, we wouldn't let Glocksters carry 1911s.

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HighVelocity
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Postby HighVelocity » Thu Aug 04, 2005 6:27 am

The proficiency test is just that: a test of shooting proficiency


There were two students in my class that had rented Glocks and could not figure out how to use them. The instructor told them to come back and take the course another day as it was not meant to be a firearms instruction class.


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Postby txinvestigator » Thu Aug 04, 2005 7:33 am

As an instructor I usually have anywhere from 10-20 Armed Security Guard renewals a week, 20 or so initial Armed Guards per month, and I personally teach 35 or so CHL students per month. The range does at least 80 initial CHL students per month and probably 40 or so renewals.

I believe I speak with some authority on this subject. People who try to shoot with a semi-auto and have only handled revolvers have major problems, in general. Bullets in backwards, mags in backwards, unable to lock the slide back, release the slide, manipulate safeties, decockers, etc.

While attempting to do so they do all sorts of unsafe things.

I am in agreement with the NSA/SA restrictions.

We regularly stop people from trying to qualify with semi-autos, and put them in revolvers. Not many, but it happens.

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Postby gigag04 » Thu Aug 04, 2005 8:26 am

HighVelocity wrote:There were two students in my class that had rented Glocks and could not figure out how to use them. The instructor told them to come back and take the course another day as it was not meant to be a firearms instruction class.


That's scary. I'm glad the instructors caught on and wouldn't allow them to shoot until they had learned what the heck they were doing.
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Postby wrt45 » Thu Aug 04, 2005 9:48 am

txinvestigator wrote:We regularly stop people from trying to qualify with semi-autos, and put them in revolvers. Not many, but it happens.


What size are your classes, Tx?

I ask because we do just the opposite. We put everyone in SAs, even if they are revolver people. However, my classes are very small, and if someone is unfamiliar with SAs, we are able to take a little extra time before class for familiarization and practice.

Then, if they want to carry a revolver, great; but if the move to SAs, they don't have to requalify.


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Postby Baytown » Thu Aug 04, 2005 11:03 am

I don't like the rule. I was in a TCLEOSE Firearm Instructor course and there were officers my age that could work their Glocks just fine, but had never shot a revolver and had no idea how they worked. :shock: :shock:

It seems like the state would encourage one to qual with the gun they will carry. I carry a Smith 36 or 37 a lot, but I would never use it to qual with in the CHL course because I would be limiting myself.

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You Nailed It.

Postby anygunanywhere » Thu Aug 04, 2005 11:18 am

Amen, Baytown. The SA/NSA is bull. The wife packs a revolver. I had her shoot and qualify with a SA since, maybe the day pigs fly, she will want to pack a hmmmm, let's see, Desert Eagle?

Nah. She will probably meet another XX type who totes a stainless Python. Don't have one of them yet.
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Postby txinvestigator » Thu Aug 04, 2005 12:41 pm

wrt45 wrote:
txinvestigator wrote:We regularly stop people from trying to qualify with semi-autos, and put them in revolvers. Not many, but it happens.


What size are your classes, Tx?

I ask because we do just the opposite. We put everyone in SAs, even if they are revolver people. However, my classes are very small, and if someone is unfamiliar with SAs, we are able to take a little extra time before class for familiarization and practice.

Then, if they want to carry a revolver, great; but if the move to SAs, they don't have to requalify.


Classes average 15-20 for initials. Usually these are people who have never shot before, and decide they want to qualify with a semi-auto. We only stop them if they are obviously incompetent with the semi. Happens more than you'd think.


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