It's Time for National Reciprocity

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Lynyrd
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Re: It's Time for National Reciprocity

Postby Lynyrd » Wed Jan 04, 2017 10:38 pm

NotRPB wrote:Nationwide Concealed-Carry RECIPROCITY Bill Introduced in Congress on Day One!
Second Amendment
BREITBART --
On January 3–the first day of the 115th Congress–Representative Richard Hudson (R-NC-8) introduced national concealed carry reciprocity legislation.

full article at https://www.redflagnews.com/headlines-2017/nationwide-concealed-carry-reciprocity-bill-introduced-in-congress-on-day-one


If this passes, are there any states that don't issue permits at all? I know there are some "may issue" but I am not aware of any that don't have some kind of permit, unless they are constitutional carry of course.
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Re: It's Time for National Reciprocity

Postby CleverNickname » Fri Jan 06, 2017 8:53 pm

There's no states which don't have some sort of carry license, but apparently the Northern Marianas and Guam don't have any sort of license available, even one that's never issued.

"May-issue" states are pretty variable too. Issuance in states like NY, CA and MA is highly dependent on where in the state the applicant lives, but in other states like NJ or HI, it's as good as "no issue." If an article I read the other day is correct, there's been something like three Hawaii licenses issued, ever.

I also noticed that this section from the 2015 version of the bill wasn't included in the 2017 version:

``(c) Unrestricted License or Permit.--In a State that allows the
issuing authority for licenses or permits to carry concealed firearms
to impose restrictions on the carrying of firearms by individual
holders of such licenses or permits, an individual carrying a concealed
handgun under this section shall be permitted to carry a concealed
handgun according to the same terms authorized by an unrestricted
license of or permit issued to a resident of the State.

Finally, the 2017 bill also includes a section that says:

(2) The term ‘handgun’ includes any magazine
for use in a handgun and any ammunition loaded
into the handgun or its magazine.

Since the bill doesn't require that a licensee have a license from their own state to carry in that state, and any magazines for use in a handgun are included, it looks like state-level magazine bans would be effectively neutered for anyone with a license. If this passed, then I'm guessing there would also be a new market in those magazine-ban states for STANAG ("AR15") magazines marked "pistol". It doesn't say that the magazines have to be used in a handgun, just that they are for use in a handgun. Marking "pistol" on them would seem to be prima-facie evidence that they're designed for use in pistols. Canadian gun owners do something similar. They're limited to 5-round magazines in rifles, but 10-rounds for handguns, so there's a market for 10-round AR15 pistol magazines, which somehow almost always end up being used in rifles.
Last edited by CleverNickname on Sat Jan 07, 2017 8:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: It's Time for National Reciprocity

Postby tbrown » Sat Jan 07, 2017 3:39 pm

jed wrote:Say national reciprocity passes, who will enforce the new federal law?

My guess is the same ones who enforce "shall not be infringed" now.


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Re: It's Time for National Reciprocity

Postby TreyHouston » Sat Jan 07, 2017 6:02 pm

Im willing to bet this will pass. Trump is a gun fan...
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Re: It's Time for National Reciprocity

Postby Beiruty » Sat Jan 07, 2017 6:23 pm

TreyHouston wrote:Im willing to bet this will pass. Trump is a gun fan...

Not really. NRA wants that to pass. That is it.
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Re: It's Time for National Reciprocity

Postby Charles L. Cotton » Sat Jan 07, 2017 8:42 pm

Beiruty wrote:
TreyHouston wrote:Im willing to bet this will pass. Trump is a gun fan...

Not really. NRA wants that to pass. That is it.


Trump is a gun guy now. He has a carry permit and carries and he's an NRA Live Member. His sons are huge gun guys who hunt, shoot competitively, reload and have carry permits. Yes, years ago Trump commented about supporting an assault rifle ban, but his sons quickly educated the New Yorker about the truth of semi-auto rifles and how they are used by citizens.

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Re: It's Time for National Reciprocity

Postby Beiruty » Sat Jan 07, 2017 9:55 pm

Charles L. Cotton wrote:
Beiruty wrote:
TreyHouston wrote:Im willing to bet this will pass. Trump is a gun fan...

Not really. NRA wants that to pass. That is it.


Trump is a gun guy now. He has a carry permit and carries and he's an NRA Live Member. His sons are huge gun guys who hunt, shoot competitively, reload and have carry permits. Yes, years ago Trump commented about supporting an assault rifle ban, but his sons quickly educated the New Yorker about the truth of semi-auto rifles and how they are used by citizens.

Chas.


I do not mind that, I am happy he flopped to the right of the people to bare arms.

I am also aware that his kids are big hunters. :thumbs2: :thumbs2:
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Re: It's Time for National Reciprocity

Postby bblhd672 » Mon Jan 09, 2017 3:01 pm

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Re: It's Time for National Reciprocity

Postby KLB » Mon Jan 16, 2017 5:51 pm

tbrown wrote:
jed wrote:Say national reciprocity passes, who will enforce the new federal law?

My guess is the same ones who enforce "shall not be infringed" now.


Presumably it will be a defense to prosecution, which is not to say places such as New York and New Jersey won't bring the prosecutions anyway.


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Re: It's Time for National Reciprocity

Postby 2farnorth » Mon Jan 16, 2017 8:36 pm

KLB wrote:
tbrown wrote:
jed wrote:Say national reciprocity passes, who will enforce the new federal law?

My guess is the same ones who enforce "shall not be infringed" now.


Presumably it will be a defense to prosecution, which is not to say places such as New York and New Jersey won't bring the prosecutions anyway.


For that very reason I will not carry in any of those states until a test case has made it all the way up through the judicial system. I don't want to spend any time in their jails and I can't afford to be involved paying for litigation. It will probably take a longer time than I have anyway.
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Re: It's Time for National Reciprocity

Postby KLB » Tue Jan 17, 2017 9:55 am

2farnorth wrote:For that very reason I will not carry in any of those states until a test case has made it all the way up through the judicial system. I don't want to spend any time in their jails and I can't afford to be involved paying for litigation. It will probably take a longer time than I have anyway.


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Re: It's Time for National Reciprocity

Postby Charles L. Cotton » Tue Jan 17, 2017 10:43 am

As expected, Dudley Brown's NAGR is opposing it.

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Re: It's Time for National Reciprocity

Postby E.Marquez » Tue Jan 17, 2017 12:58 pm

Charles L. Cotton wrote:As expected, Dudley Brown's NAGR is opposing it.

Chas.

Is this the claim National Reciprocity is a back door registration deal? Or was that one of the other "We fight for you.....oh and please give us lots of money to do that" sites?
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Re: It's Time for National Reciprocity

Postby Liberty » Tue Jan 17, 2017 4:09 pm

I never heard of the the NAGR people. So I googled them and checked ou their stance:

These People are nuts!!

They claim that the National Reciprocity Bill is subterfuge for constitutional carry. One is a national Bill and the other is an individual state issue. They claim that the Bill introduces a back door for more intervention by the Feds for more regulations. The Feds can't pass regulations without passing a new bill. If congress becomes predisposed to pass a gun grabber bill, having a reciprocity law won't make it any easier (or more difficult).

It seems to me that the NAGR is a one issue organization, that is willing to sacrifice the rights of all of us to promote the importance of their single issue. Their website rips the NRA and is a full out attempt to divided and split the gun community using old fashioned FUD.

Definition.
FUD: fear, uncertainty and doubt, usually evoked intentionally in order to put a competitor at a disadvantage.
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Re: It's Time for National Reciprocity

Postby Beiruty » Tue Jan 17, 2017 4:17 pm

Now, I did not read the national bill, Does it specify minimum requirements for the licenses? I guess, not. All what is says that if you have a valid LTC from outside the home state, the visited state should recognize the LTC, and the visitor LTCer should follow the gun laws of the hosting state.
There is no intervention as to what the gun laws in the hosting state should be. Now, the only problem is that sate where there is no OC or CC licensing got stuck with no gun carrying laws of their own. This is a mute issue if OC or CC licensed or otherwise is legal in all states.
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