Just sent in documents; Excited but...

[Fluidic]

I finally took my course and received my certification. Just sent in all the paperwork to DPS and have already done the app/fingerprints. I've been excited for a long time about this and am hoping the wait isn't too long!

That being said, the LTC course I took was a little.... dark. I know it's the instructors job to teach us all the things that could happen and how to be responsible but what excitement I had to receive the ability to carry for protection turned into concern. The instructor basically focused completely on the negative aspects of carrying. I can understand the reasoning why but the thought of having to pay thousands of dollars in court fees, sitting in jail for who knows how long and the possibility of being sued just for defending myself/family is odd. It just seems like, and I pray this never happens, having to use deadly force to save a family members life might also ruin my life in the form of possibly losing my job, possibly getting a felony charge (not conviction) or being sued for everything I have by the "victims" family. It would be worth it to save my wife's, daughter's or my own life no question but the repercussions of doing so are extreme. The thought of losing everything is a nervous one. What are your thoughts on this?

[Radioactive]

I took the LTC class with a coworker of mine and we both felt the exact same way afterwards. We actually talked about it the entire ride back. One thing we did notice was after hearing all the horror stories of what could possibly go wrong, we were told about the option of signing up for the "insurance" to possibly protect us. I just can't help but think the entire class was preparation for the selling of a product in the end. Neither of us signed up for it. I don't like being ambushed into a sale. I like to do my research first.

[LosAlce]

I feel that the class needs to be dark because this is a serious subject. My instructor put it to us this way:

You shouldn't be here because you want to shoot someone. You should never look forward to that. This isn't about giving you the right to shoot someone. This is about giving you the ability to have the right tools in order to defend yourself and your family in a worse case scenario where there are no more options.

I actually liked that we had a chunk of of the class dedicated to conflict resolution and that we should REALLY consider if something is worth brandishing your gun for, especially in the defense of your property. We also had a conversation about the insurance you can get to protect yourself for legal fees but the class as a whole never felt as if that was the whole selling point. It was just one other option we had in case we wanted to look into that type of protection. We focused much more on conflict resolution, swallowing your pride and just walking away from antagonizers or just about anything else to try and deescalate the situation to avoid having to use deadly force.

It was much more comforting to me to hear our instructors push conflict resolution rather than just gloss over it so we could hurry and go to the range. It is literally a matter of life or death.

I'm not sure how you could possibly lose your job over defending yourself or your family but I don't know your circumstances either. My husband and I picked up a book from a gunshop we like to visit called "Texas Gun Law Armed and Educated" the 2016-2017 edition. I would highly recommend it if you're still worried about the consequences of ever having to use deadly force.

[Pawpaw]

I agree the course does need to be at least somewhat dark. This is serious business.

Take a look at this TEDx presentation by Tim Larkin. The premise is, "Violence is seldom the answer, but when it IS the answer, it's the only answer." Good food for thought.

[Bayoutalker]

Sounds like your instructors did a good job. The whole point of taking the class is to educate you on what is and is not legal and how it can affect the rest of your life. Far to many people think they buy a gun, use it, then walk away clean. Taking a person's life is serious business and should not be taken lightly.

As for the insurance sales pitch, I personally don't like that kind of activity when I am there for another reason. It's not that the insurance is not a good idea, but rather salesmen try to close the deal without you having time to look at your options. Just like any other insurance out there, there are lots of different companies and options to choose from and no one is right for everyone.

[vjallen75]

Sounds like your instructors did a good job. The whole point of taking the class is to educate you on what is and is not legal and how it can affect the rest of your life. Far to many people think they buy a gun, use it, then walk away clean. Taking a person's life is serious business and should not be taken lightly.

As for the insurance sales pitch, I personally don't like that kind of activity when I am there for another reason. It's not that the insurance is not a good idea, but rather salesmen try to close the deal without you having time to look at your options. Just like any other insurance out there, there are lots of different companies and options to choose from and no one is right for everyone.

After taking the class with my wife, we did decide that it would be a good idea to get insurance but once I received my license and started carrying. I am now in the process of looking for a pre-paid legal service but I will do my due diligence as Cliff as stated. I work in auto insurance so I know oh too well that he is correct. Yes it is "our" job to get you to buy a product but make sure you read everything through before your purchase. So many people buy things because they are cheaper and not the best "deal" for them.

It is important to train yourself to view everything from a different mindset. Deadly force is a last resort - I hope you and your family are never in that situation.

[Fluidic]

I agree it is serious and, like I said, I would never want to be in that situation where I might have to possibly take another person's life. The instructor did speak about conflict resolution and to not draw unless your life is on the line but I think it's possible to be extremely serious without being extremely dark. I didn't sign up for this to be "cool," have fun or show off my guns. I did it because I have a 2 yr old and a wife that I'd do anything to protect.
As for the person who said something along the lines of "Idk how you'd lose your job," Idk about you but my work isn't going to like it when I tell them I'll be in jail for an indefinite amount of time. Even if I was able to post bail or matters were resolved quickly, I would more than likely be gone for at least a couple days which won't sit well either.
I just find it crazy that so many consequences can come from saving a childs, or family members, life.
Anyhow, just got the email that supporting docs were received so now the 6ish week wait begins!

[Charles L. Cotton]

I guess I'm going to be in the minority on the issue of LTC classes needing to be "dark." I doubt there's many instructors that cover the use of force more thoroughly than do I, but I've never felt the need to turn it into a classroom version of a Hollywood horror movie. I don't make light of using deadly force, nor do I scare people into leaving their self-defense handguns at home. With all of the gloom and doom preached by people who want to sell you something, stop to consider how many CHLs have you heard of actually being charged after they used their handgun in self-defense. In twenty years, I can recall very few and none that were clear-cut self-defense shootings. I cannot recall a single CHL who "spent time in jail and paid thousands of dollars" over a righteous self-defense shooting. The fact is almost all CHLs/LTCs take their responsibility very seriously and that's why our track record for the last 20 years has been fantastic.

Carrying a handgun requires the licensee to be a responsible citizen. So does learning to drive, fly, SCUBA dive and countless other skills and it's neither necessary nor desireable for an instructor to have their students leaving their classes with that "thousand yard stare." It has been my experience that people learn more and better when they are having fun and there's nothing fun about being scared that the activity for which you are taking the class will get you killed, jailed and/or prosecuted.

Again, this is just my opinion, but it's the one I bring to my classes.
Chas.

[ScottDLS]

I go to Church for moral instruction. I prefer that my LTC instruction be related to the State requirements and laws relating to the carry of handguns. I don't need I moral lecture from the FFL when I buy a rifle. If you own a firearm for self defense at all, I hope you have at least considered the circumstances under which you might use it.

I wonder if there were any combat vets in the class. Assuming the instructor was not one himself, I wonder how they felt about the "dark" part of the class. From my NON-COMBAT experience in the military, I recall our instruction being mostly related to the legal and technical aspects of using offensive weapons, some many orders of magnitude more powerful than a handgun. Leave the morality to the Chaplains and your faith, lest you hesitate and lose YOUR life or the battle.

[vjallen75]

When I took my LTC class a lady that was taking it with her husband dropped out after the classroom portion of the test. She felt like the legal ramifications were too great to received her LTC. The instructor tried to talk her into at least finishing the class but she refused. Our instructor, who is also a family friend, did a good job of explaining the legal aspects of the class but more focus on where you can carry and knowing when to draw and use your firearm and if you draw your firearm be ready to use it.

I agree with Charles and Scott in that it doesn't need to be dark but we need to know what the legal ramifications are.

[The Wall]

Does the DPS condone it's instructors selling insurance? By the number of questions by LTC holders on this and other forums related not much of the information put out at these classes is retained. I can include myself in that club. I have to refresh my memory often on laws and regs. pertaining to LTC. This forum has been a great source of information for sure. Nothing dark during the classes I took.

[Charles L. Cotton]

Does the DPS condone it's instructors selling insurance? By the number of questions by LTC holders on this and other forums related not much of the information put out at these classes is retained. I can include myself in that club. I have to refresh my memory often on laws and regs. pertaining to LTC. This forum has been a great source of information for sure. Nothing dark during the classes I took.

The only information I can provide is that DPS will not allow instructors to include any time spent promoting or selling prepaid legal services or self-defense insurance as part of our reported class hours.

Chas.

[LosAlce]

As for the person who said something along the lines of "Idk how you'd lose your job," Idk about you but my work isn't going to like it when I tell them I'll be in jail for an indefinite amount of time. Even if I was able to post bail or matters were resolved quickly, I would more than likely be gone for at least a couple days which won't sit well either.

I'm privileged to work for very understanding people. I was gone for a month to be with my husband's family as my mother-in-law suddenly fell ill and slowly began to decline after we had to remove her from life support. I didn't want to imply that there isn't a way for you to lose your job, what my intent was that why couldn't a situation like that be treated as a family emergency? hypothetically wouldn't it be anyway because it was either y'all or them?

Regardless, as I stated before, I don't know your circumstances. I can only speak for my own. I just wanted to clarify that I was not trying to say something like being thrown in jail or being fired couldn't happen. IANAL. The book I suggested earlier helped to answer my questions of how various circumstances could work out, and it was compiled by lawyers. I'm not trying to sell you something, I get no benefit from it other than sharing a resource that I found valuable (and continue to) for myself and my husband.

I wish you the best of luck navigating the complexity of self defense!

[Bayoutalker]

I guess I'm going to be in the minority on the issue of LTC classes needing to be "dark." I doubt there's many instructors that cover the use of force more thoroughly than do I, but I've never felt the need to turn it into a classroom version of a Hollywood horror movie. I don't make light of using deadly force, nor do I scare people into leaving their self-defense handguns at home. With all of the gloom and doom preached by people who want to sell you something, stop to consider how many CHLs have you heard of actually being charged after they used their handgun in self-defense. In twenty years, I can recall very few and none that were clear-cut self-defense shootings. I cannot recall a single CHL who "spent time in jail and paid thousands of dollars" over a righteous self-defense shooting. The fact is almost all CHLs/LTCs take their responsibility very seriously and that's why our track record for the last 20 years has been fantastic.

Carrying a handgun requires the licensee to be a responsible citizen. So does learning to drive, fly, SCUBA dive and countless other skills and it's neither necessary nor desireable for an instructor to have their students leaving their classes with that "thousand yard stare." It has been my experience that people learn more and better when they are having fun and there's nothing fun about being scared that the activity for which you are taking the class will get you killed, jailed and/or prosecuted.

Again, this is just my opinion, but it's the one I bring to my classes.
Chas.

Our instructor did a very good job of explaining the law and the possible penalties of breaking those laws. He was very thorough and serious but I would not consider it "dark". However, I could see how some people that are more inclined to be "nervous" about some things could see it a different way. Of course he was not trying to sell us insurance or legal services either. He simply mentioned that such a thing exists if we wanted to look into on our own.

I kind of see it as a conflict of interest to have someone selling these products in attendance at the class.