Training + competitive shooting = better gunfighter

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Soccerdad1995
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Re: Training + competitive shooting = better gunfighter

Postby Soccerdad1995 » Mon Feb 05, 2018 6:03 pm

JustSomeOldGuy wrote:Does the guy that went back to the truck for his AR think that in a real life situation, the bad guys are going to wait for him to go back to his truck? :totap:

re: the whiners
you enticed liberals into competing in your matches? Awesome! :thumbs2:


If he's facing 38 bad guys he probably correctly believes he is SOL either way. Fighting his way back to his truck is the course of action that is least likely to get him killed (assuming he has to fight and can't just drive off in his truck for some reason). The unloading and holstering of his 1911 was probably only done for safety reasons.

I haven't shot USPSA, but I do enjoy shooting IDPA. Yes, it's not realistic. If they wanted it to be completely realistic, you would be facing one guy 3 feet from you, and you would have a fully loaded gun. But that wouldn't make it all that much fun.
Ding dong, the witch is dead


TxD
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Re: Training + competitive shooting = better gunfighter

Postby TxD » Wed Feb 07, 2018 10:20 am

[quote="LeonCarr"]I have been competitive shooting (PPC, IPSC/USPSA, IDPA) off and on since 1993. Since that time I have tried to focused more on tactical training than competitive shooting for several reasons:

1. Gamers. Anytime you have a "game" with "rules" people are going to try to bend the rules or break the rules without getting caught. Also, most courses of fire, even in IDPA which is supposed to be more realistic, isn't. On one stage during a USPSA match, a 38 round hose fest out to 50 yards, one shooter, a Vietnam era Green Beret, as the buzzer went off he unloaded his 1911, holstered it, walked off the line, went to his truck, retrieved his 20 Inch Colt AR and several 30 round magazines, and walked back to the line and started to load and make ready. He was DQed, told the RO that if he saw 38 bad guys he would either do what he just did or run :). He left the match.

2. Whiners. I have seen grown men cry more at shooting matches than at any other place.

3. Standing Around. As I age traveling 2 hours or more round trip to take 6 hours to fire 125 rounds or less just does not appeal to me anymore.

In a good tactical training course you spend most of the time learning and shooting to win the fight, instead of being told that you are never going to be a master class shooter because you stepped out of a box made out of 1 inch PVC pipe too soon or too late on the last stage.

Just my .02,
LeonCarr [/quote]


Leon, I appreciate your view and have heard similar from others.
Here is another view.
Training vs Practice is an often discussed subject.
For the purpose of this discussion:
Training is performed under the supervision of a qualified instructor to obtain knowledge and
useful skills.
Practice is the performance of knowledge or skills already known.
Now add a shooting "Game" with its inherent rules. Let's use old time "Bullseye competition.
When a shooter begins his course of fire is he training or practicing?
He is performing skills with knowledge previously learned not obtaining knowledge or skills from an instructor.
He is much like a "practicing attorney" or "practicing doctor".
Now consider the "game" of IDPA/USPSA.
To be proficient the shooter must attain a certain amount of skills including draw, stance, grip, malfunction
clearance etc. as well as knowledge of the rules. He should have practiced these skills prior to the match with dryfire etc.
As stated elsewhere, the addition of a time factor and presence of peers and onlookers adds to the stress factor.
Is this is training or practice? What is he practicing?
Here is the greater question.
Will the knowledge and skill practiced in these matches improve the shooters chances of winning a fight or would he be equally
prepared had he not competed?
Black Rifles Matter


WildRose
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Re: Training + competitive shooting = better gunfighter

Postby WildRose » Fri Mar 23, 2018 1:53 am

JustSomeOldGuy wrote:Does the guy that went back to the truck for his AR think that in a real life situation, the bad guys are going to wait for him to go back to his truck? :totap:

re: the whiners
you enticed liberals into competing in your matches? Awesome! :thumbs2:
I can think of several such situations where someone was able to get from the scene to retrieve a gun from their car/truck, and stop a mass shooter.

The Pearl HS shooting was probably the most well known case.


Assistant Principal Joel Myrick chased Woodham down outside the school, held him at bay with a Colt .45-caliber automatic pistol he kept in his truck in the school parking lot. He forced Woodham to the ground and put his foot on the youth's neck. "I think he's a coward," Myrick said. "I had my weapon pointed at his face, and he didn't want to die."
https://www.frontpagemag.com/point/170254/how-assistant-principal-gun-stopped-school-shooter-daniel-greenfield

There was another case, can't remember where exactly but there was a large, rowdy superbowl party crashed by some young thugs intent on armed robbery of the rick folks.

One of them slipped out the back, got to his truck and retrieved his 870 Rem from the truck.

Upon reentry of the home both perp's quickly assumed room temperature.

Not the ideal, always better to have your defensive gun on your body when the need arises, but such situations have happened before and no doubt will happen again.
NRA Certified Instructor, RSO, CRSO,
Personal/Family Protection and Self Defense Instructor.
Without The First and Second Amendments the rest are meaningless.

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flowrie
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Re: Training + competitive shooting = better gunfighter

Postby flowrie » Fri Mar 23, 2018 4:13 am

Charles L. Cotton wrote:
The author of the article I linked is a SWAT team member and trainer. His experience in the real world supports the contention that competitive shooting in action sports improves performance in gunfights. Call it a game, call it training, ridicule it if you will, but at the end of the fight, the guys who train AND COMPETE, tend to do better on a two-way range.

Chas.


Thanks for posting Mr. Cotton.
I am trying to convince some members of the safety team at church to accompany me at monthly action matches.
If nothing else, then at least attend in order to practice safe handling, drawing, aiming, background recognition, etc...
So far only one taker, a retired sheriff officer, no others.

Just curious if you might be willing and have time in the future to post a recommendation to train (that we could copy and pass on) that is addressed specifically to volunteer church members?

Thanks for all you and others do within and outside of this forum.
God bless!
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Charles L. Cotton
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Re: Training + competitive shooting = better gunfighter

Postby Charles L. Cotton » Fri Mar 23, 2018 2:48 pm

flowrie wrote:Just curious if you might be willing and have time in the future to post a recommendation to train (that we could copy and pass on) that is addressed specifically to volunteer church members?


I'm not sure what you are asking. What would help you get your folks to the range?

Chas.
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flowrie
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Re: Training + competitive shooting = better gunfighter

Postby flowrie » Fri Mar 23, 2018 5:37 pm

Charles L. Cotton wrote:
flowrie wrote:Just curious if you might be willing and have time in the future to post a recommendation to train (that we could copy and pass on) that is addressed specifically to volunteer church members?


I'm not sure what you are asking. What would help you get your folks to the range?

Chas.



Listing your credentials, experience, etc.... would give much more validity to recommending participation in some form of competition ( training), more so than just my recommendation.
So, perhaps something similar to the link in your original post but directed to volunteer church members focusing on the critical skills, also addressing the huge responsibility that goes along with being on a church volunteer safety team. To be frank, I am having difficulty knowing what to ask for but just want to motivate the team. I know my team has good intentions, but I believe some think they don’t need to train and some are afraid to enter a competition for fear of being embarrassed.
Some also think that standing behind a bench and casually participating in target practice constitutes adequate training.
Sorry for the rambling, but I do appreciate your attention and question to my request.
Thanks!
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