idpa texas thunder gun range in conroe

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bigge
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idpa texas thunder gun range in conroe

Postby bigge » Mon Oct 17, 2016 11:11 am

Ok.... so I went sat to see what was going qon and really enjoyed it. Got to chat with a few of the guys and they all were very informative. Now I ask here ..... Good, bad, let me here it all.z looks like something that I could get into very much. Thanks for your input.... please no bashing ,, just the facts


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Re: idpa texas thunder gun range in conroe

Postby Soccerdad1995 » Mon Oct 17, 2016 11:36 am

I can't speak to this particular group for IDPA, but here are my thoughts on IDPA in general.

Pro's:
For a little more than most range fees you can get 2-4 hours of practice in real life scenarios. The training aspect alone is well worth the money, IMHO.

Camaraderie, the chance to meet and talk with like minded folks about guns and shooting.

Competition is fun.

Cons:
Unrealistic (at least to me) restrictions on gear. Most of the guns and holsters that I actually use for EDC are not allowed.

Some of the process restrictions instill bad habits (starting with downloaded mags, no dropping of an empty mag when you have a round in the chamber, etc).

Going to an IDPA event is less convenient than going to the range, at least for me. Both in distance and lack of flexibility on timing.
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Re: idpa texas thunder gun range in conroe

Postby CleverNickname » Mon Oct 17, 2016 7:29 pm

Soccerdad1995 wrote:Some of the process restrictions instill bad habits (starting with downloaded mags, no dropping of an empty mag when you have a round in the chamber, etc).


One could argue that a bad habit would be counting the rounds expended so you could make sure and drop an empty magazine and not incur a penalty. If someone's in a gun fight (which IDPA is supposedly trying to mimic to some extent), then there'd be plenty of other things to concentrate on besides counting rounds.

Downloaded magazines is to make more guns competitive and to force reloading. Otherwise with 18-round maximum in a stage the only way to be competitive would be to shoot a gun with a high-enough capacity where reloading wouldn't be required.


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Re: idpa texas thunder gun range in conroe

Postby Soccerdad1995 » Tue Oct 18, 2016 4:18 pm

CleverNickname wrote:
Soccerdad1995 wrote:Some of the process restrictions instill bad habits (starting with downloaded mags, no dropping of an empty mag when you have a round in the chamber, etc).


One could argue that a bad habit would be counting the rounds expended so you could make sure and drop an empty magazine and not incur a penalty. If someone's in a gun fight (which IDPA is supposedly trying to mimic to some extent), then there'd be plenty of other things to concentrate on besides counting rounds.

Downloaded magazines is to make more guns competitive and to force reloading. Otherwise with 18-round maximum in a stage the only way to be competitive would be to shoot a gun with a high-enough capacity where reloading wouldn't be required.


In a real gun fight, you probably are not going to need to count rounds if you have a gun that holds 15+ rounds in the mag. But if you have extra mags readily available, you may well want to reload even if you are not sure whether there could be a couple spare rounds in your mag.

I think there is a core conflict between the competition aspect and the training aspect. If the point was just to prepare participants for real world engagements, then you wouldn't need to have equipment restrictions (other than for safety reasons), and would never start with less than full mags +1. The powers that be are trying to achieve a balance between "real world" and "fair / engaging competition". I totally understand it, I just wanted to make sure I pointed out some of the impacts of this to the OP.

I guess if someone really wanted to just use IDPA as a pure training activity, they could shoot with a NFC gun, and incur procedural penalties by starting with fully loaded mags, etc. Just make sure to tell the folks running the event so they don't get so irritated that they kick you out.

Personally, I would love to see IDPA shift more toward "real world" and away from "competition". That is just my personal opinion and it is worth every cent you paid for it. I'm sure there are others who think the opposite way, and still others who think the current rules are a perfect balance. Either way, it is still better training than standing still and shooting at a stationary target on a range, IMHO.
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Re: idpa texas thunder gun range in conroe

Postby CleverNickname » Tue Oct 18, 2016 7:35 pm

Soccerdad1995 wrote:I guess if someone really wanted to just use IDPA as a pure training activity, they could shoot with a NFC gun, and incur procedural penalties by starting with fully loaded mags, etc. Just make sure to tell the folks running the event so they don't get so irritated that they kick you out.

FWIW I shoot at Thunder a couple times a month and the last time I shot a gun there that wasn't NFC was....last year sometime?

Soccerdad1995 wrote:Personally, I would love to see IDPA shift more toward "real world" and away from "competition".

The average gunfight is supposed to be 3 rounds in 3 seconds at 3 yards or something like that. It might be more realistic, but it would be pretty boring for competition. IMO it's fine the way it is.


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Re: idpa texas thunder gun range in conroe

Postby bigge » Fri Oct 21, 2016 11:39 am

Went last night for the first time .... wow !!!!! Totally different from punching a target. The buzzer goes off and what do I do now. ..definitely enjoyed it. Everyone was super cool and helpful. ... can't wait till net time. Oh they also shot uspsa ? Not idpa last night as well

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Re: idpa texas thunder gun range in conroe

Postby mloamiller » Fri Oct 21, 2016 11:53 am

I have no experience with this specific group, but in regard to IDPA in general - I agree that they are striking a balance between "real world scenarios" and competition. That requires some leveling of the playing field in terms of equipment, total rounds, etc. Even with those, it is still a lot of fun, and I think it's still good training as well. You get very comfortable handling your gun - drawing, acquiring targets, reloading, etc.- and doing it on the move. That by itself is useful.

One thing I think they could do without compromising safety, and really wish they would - stop giving a detailed walk-through of the stage before shooting it. To me, that's the most unrealistic part. If you ever get into a real gunfight, you will never have the luxury of knowing exactly where every bad guy is, how to walk through the scenario, exactly which targets to engage in what order, etc. It would be much more realistic - and more indicative of your true abilities - if you had to shoot the course without ever having seen it before.

One reason for the walk through may be that typically, everyone watches everyone else shoot the course. Therefore, those who went first would be at a significant disadvantage compared to those who went last, from a competitive standpoint. That could be addressed simply by letting only those people who have already shot the course watch others as they go through.
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Re: idpa texas thunder gun range in conroe

Postby cbunt1 » Sat Oct 22, 2016 1:22 am

It's been a while (too long) since I was an active IDPA shooter, but when I was, I was very active. IMO everyone who carries a gun should at least shoot a couple of matches, even if you're not interested in competing.

Part of my safety briefing to newcomers was this: play this game 5 separate times, and I guarantee it will change the way you carry a gun, the way you think about carrying a gun, and probably the equipment and methods you use to carry.

In short, you learn what works and what doesn't. Reloading on the clock is stressful at first, and manipulating your firearm under pressure is a brand new experience. There is simply no better way to learn these techniques than in a competitive environment. The timer tells truths that you simply can't sort out on your own. Advice and examples from others can help show you new ways to do things, and can show you what doesn't work (everyone has some of both, BTW).

The downloaded magazines is a hassle, but the real reason it's done isn't so much to encourage reloads, it's because the game is played in states where 10-round magazine restrictions are an issue -- thus the game can be played anywhere with no regional changes.

Certain concessions to safety preclude the use of certain real-world carry methods (ankle, appendix, cross-draw, etc.) It goes with my diatribe about "Ways to carry a gun vs. ways to use a gun" and "guns to carry vs. guns to shoot."

The penalty for dropping an empty magazine with a round in the chamber is stupid. I can get on a soapbox all night about this one, because it leads to an inconsistent condition under the rules (The gun in the same condition is "loaded" for one rule, and "unloaded" for others). Long story, better suited for an SO rant at the pizza joint after the match LOL.

I agree that the walk through is in contrast with real world, but given all the things that could happen, the walk through serves to give the shooter a heads-up to potential safety issues, muzzle-safe zones, and an idea of what might be coming at them (remember moving targets are a real possibility). Blind stages, while potentially a lot of fun for experienced shooters, are potentially dangerous for less experienced shooters.

It's the best experience and opportunity to test your holster, handgun, carry methods and manipulation skills you'll ever get for the price of admission. Just remember that a shooting match isn't a gunfight, but a gunfight is a shooting match. By that I mean it's one more tool in the toolbox, but it's not a complete picture of defensive handgun work and skills.

As far as the shooters at Thunder, some of the best IDPA competitors in the country shoot there frequently. There are several championship level shooters there, and if you look real close, you're likely to run into some of Comp-Tac and Smith & Wesson's sponsored shooters there. And these world-class shooters are just as helpful and friendly as the average shooter. I've learned a lot from them over the years.
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Re: idpa texas thunder gun range in conroe

Postby Skiprr » Sat Oct 22, 2016 2:10 am

cbunt1 wrote:It's the best experience and opportunity to test your holster, handgun, carry methods and manipulation skills you'll ever get for the price of admission. Just remember that a shooting match isn't a gunfight, but a gunfight is a shooting match. By that I mean it's one more tool in the toolbox, but it's not a complete picture of defensive handgun work and skills.

A) You and I both need to do a better job with insomnia. ;-)

B) I agree with everything you said. But the quoted bit is worth repeating. I think everyone needs to understand that IDPA (or any other practical shooting competition) is a fun sport and can be very good practice. But it is not training. It has to be popular to be sustainable, and that means clear sets of rules that can apply to all states (at least, under current laws), that provide an even, enjoyable playing field, and that do the best possible job of ensuring safety for both shooters and the host ranges.

If a shooter typically has access only to a standard, public range, then shooting IDPA compared to standing at a bench punching one hole in a static target every three seconds is the difference between driving a golf cart on the back nine and taking a Dodge SRT Viper out on a private track. Timed performance; draw from holster; moving shooter; moving targets; multiple targets; shoot/no-shoot targets; reloads; on-the-clock malfunction clearances; use of cover; almost infinite course of fire scenarios. All very, very good practice.

And if you enter into it understanding that it is a game with rules that have to be followed, and that sometimes those rules and CoF design don't necessarily mesh with what you'll learn in quality defensive shooting courses, all will be well.
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Re: idpa texas thunder gun range in conroe

Postby cbunt1 » Sat Oct 22, 2016 7:50 pm

Skiprr wrote:A) You and I both need to do a better job with insomnia. ;-)


Some nights, I think if it weren't for INsomnia, I wouldn't have any somnia at all....oh, wait! That's the point, isn't it! :biggrinjester:

Skiprr wrote:If a shooter typically has access only to a standard, public range, then shooting IDPA compared to standing at a bench punching one hole in a static target every three seconds is the difference between driving a golf cart on the back nine and taking a Dodge SRT Viper out on a private track. Timed performance; draw from holster; moving shooter; moving targets; multiple targets; shoot/no-shoot targets; reloads; on-the-clock malfunction clearances; use of cover; almost infinite course of fire scenarios. All very, very good practice.


After spending our entire youths being taught not to run with scissors, it takes a significant amount of practice and coaching to learn to safely run with a loaded gun!
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