IDPA 2017 Rulebook dramatically changes BUG size/weight limits

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IDPA 2017 Rulebook dramatically changes BUG size/weight limits

Postby DanD » Sun Nov 20, 2016 1:04 pm

[Edited to use the Finalized IDPA 2017 Rulebook version 2017.2, and to remove my comment about it being a Glock division since the weight limit moved to 26 oz]

The Finalized IDPA 2017 Rulebook changes BUG size/weight limits. Here is a link to the IDPA 2017 rulebook:
Version 2017.2: http://members.idpa.com/Content/Rules/4sig5pxx.mr1.pdf
Version 2017.1a: http://www.idpa.com/misc/Rulebook%202017%20Master.pdf

I have competed exclusively in BUG since that division became effective on March 1, 2015. I shoot a Springfield Armory XD9SC, which will no longer be legal under the 2017 rules. I compete at the IDPA matches at PSC and I'm usually the only one shooting BUG.

Why would the IDPA powers that be dramatically change the size and weight limits to remove a large number of pistols from the BUG division? Are they trying to kill BUG? The 2017 BUG rules have effectively removed a large number of small pistols from the BUG division.

This issue is also being discussed here: http://idpaforum.yuku.com/topic/12428/2017-rulebook-comments-sent-to-HQ?page=1

Here is a summary of the BUG size and weight limits by rulebook year:
2015 IDPA BUG Limits:
- Barrel Length <= 3.60”
- Size 7.25” x 5.5” x 1.375”
- Weight 29.00 oz

Finalized 2017 IDPA BUG Limits (version 2017.2):
- Barrel Length <= 3.50”
- Size 6.50” x 4.625” x 1.375”
- Weight 26.00 oz


Glock 26 Gen4 9mm
https://us.glock.com/products/model/g26gen4
Barrel Length 3.42”
Size (LxHxW): 6.41”x4.17”x1.18”
Weight w/Mag: 21.71 oz
2015 BUG Legal: Yes
2017 BUG Legal: Yes


Glock 43 9mm
https://us.glock.com/products/model/g43
Barrel Length 3.39”
Size (LxHxW): 6.29”x4.25”x1.02”
Weight w/Mag: 17.95 oz
2015 BUG Legal: Yes
2017 BUG Legal: Yes


Glock 27 Gen4 .40
https://us.glock.com/products/model/g27gen4
Barrel Length 3.42”
Size (LxHxW): 6.41”x4.17”x1.18”
Weight w/Mag: 21.89 oz
2015 BUG Legal: Yes
2017 BUG Legal: Yes


Springfield Armory XD-S 3.3 9mm
http://www.springfield-armory.com/produ ... -3-3-9-mm/
Barrel Length 3.3”
Size (LxHxW): 6.3”x4.4”x0.9”
Weight w/Mag: 23 oz
2015 BUG Legal: Yes
2017 BUG Legal: Yes


Springfield Armory XD-S 3.3 .40SW
http://www.springfield-armory.com/produ ... tack-40sw/
Barrel Length 3.3”
Size (LxHxW): 6.3”x4.4”x0.9”
Weight w/Mag: 22 oz
2015 BUG Legal: Yes
2017 BUG Legal: Yes


Springfield Armory XD-S 3.3 .45ACP
http://www.springfield-armory.com/produ ... -3-45-acp/
Barrel Length 3.3”
Size (LxHxW): 6.3”x4.4”x0.9”
Weight w/Mag: 21.5 oz
2015 BUG Legal: Yes
2017 BUG Legal: Yes


Springfield Armory XD 3” Sub-Compact 9mm
http://www.springfield-armory.com/produ ... mpact-9mm/
Barrel Length 3”
Size (LxHxW): 6.25”x4.75”x1.20”
Weight w/Mag: 26 oz
2015 BUG Legal: Yes
2017 BUG Legal: No - Exceeds Height Limit


Springfield Armory XD 3” Sub-Compact .40SW
http://www.springfield-armory.com/produ ... ct-40-cal/
Barrel Length 3”
Size (LxHxW): 6.25”x4.75”x1.20”
Weight w/Mag: 26 oz
2015 BUG Legal: Yes
2017 BUG Legal: No - Exceeds Height Limit


Springfield Armory XD MOD.2 3” Sub-Compact 9mm
http://www.springfield-armory.com/produ ... mpact-9mm/
Barrel Length 3”
Size (LxHxW): 6.25”x4.75”x1.19”
Weight w/Mag: 26 oz
2015 BUG Legal: Yes
2017 BUG Legal: No - Exceeds Height Limit


Springfield Armory XD MOD.2 3” Sub-Compact .40SW
http://www.springfield-armory.com/produ ... pact-40sw/
Barrel Length 3”
Size (LxHxW): 6.25”x4.75”x1.19”
Weight w/Mag: 26 oz
2015 BUG Legal: Yes
2017 BUG Legal: No - Exceeds Height Limit


Springfield Armory XD MOD.2 3.3” Sub-Compact .45ACP
http://www.springfield-armory.com/produ ... act-45acp/
Barrel Length 3.3”
Size (LxHxW): 6.5”x4.75”x1.20”
Weight w/Mag: 26 oz
2015 BUG Legal: Yes
2017 BUG Legal: No - Exceeds Height Limit


Springfield Armory 1911 EMP 9mm
http://www.springfield-armory.com/produ ... -emp-9-mm/
Barrel Length 3”
Size (LxHxW): 6.6”x5”x?
Weight w/Mag: 27 oz
2015 BUG Legal: Yes
2017 BUG Legal: No - Exceeds Weight and Height Limits


Smith & Wesson M&P9 Shield 9mm
https://www.smith-wesson.com/firearms/mp-9-shield-0
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smith_%26_Wesson_M%26P
Barrel Length 3.1”
Size (LxHxW): 6.1”x4.6”x0.95”
Weight w/Mag: 20.8 oz
2015 BUG Legal: Yes
2017 BUG Legal: Yes


Smith & Wesson M&P40 Shield .40SW
https://www.smith-wesson.com/firearms/mp-40-shield
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smith_%26_Wesson_M%26P
Barrel Length 3.1”
Size (LxHxW): 6.1”x4.6”x0.95”
Weight w/Mag: 20.6 oz
2015 BUG Legal: Yes
2017 BUG Legal: Yes


Smith & Wesson M&P9C Compact 9mm
https://www.smith-wesson.com/firearms/mp-9c-compact
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smith_%26_Wesson_M%26P
Barrel Length 3.5”
Size (LxHxW): 6.7”x4.3”x1.2”
Weight w/Mag: 24.7 oz
2015 BUG Legal: Yes
2017 BUG Legal: No - Exceeds Length Limit


Ruger SR9c 9mm
http://www.ruger-firearms.com/products/ ... /3314.html
Barrel Length 3.40”
Size (LxHxW): 6.85”x4.61”x1.27”
Weight w/Mag: 23.4 oz
2015 BUG Legal: Yes
2017 BUG Legal: No - Exceeds Length Limit


Ruger SR40c .40SW
http://www.ruger-firearms.com/products/ ... /3477.html
Barrel Length 3.50”
Size (LxHxW): 6.85”x4.61”x1.27”
Weight w/Mag: 23.4 oz
2015 BUG Legal: Yes
2017 BUG Legal: No - Exceeds Length Limit


Ruger LC9s 9mm
http://www.ruger-firearms.com/products/ ... /3248.html
Barrel Length 3.12”
Size (LxHxW): 6.0”x4.50”x0.90”
Weight w/Mag: 17.2 oz
2015 BUG Legal: Yes
2017 BUG Legal: Yes


Kahr P9 9mm
http://www.kahr.com/Pistols/Kahr-P9.asp
Barrel Length 3.6”
Size (LxHxW): 5.8”x4.5”x0.9”
Weight w/Mag: 16.9 oz
2015 BUG Legal: Yes
2017 BUG Legal: No - Exceeds Barrel Length Limit


Kahr CW9 9mm
http://www.kahr.com/Pistols/Kahr-CW9.asp
Barrel Length 3.6”
Size (LxHxW): 5.9”x4.5”x0.9”
Weight w/Mag: 17.7 oz
2015 BUG Legal: Yes
2017 BUG Legal: No - Exceeds Barrel Length Limit


Kahr P40 .40SW
http://www.kahr.com/Pistols/Kahr-P40.asp
Barrel Length 3.6”
Size (LxHxW): 6.1”x4.55”x0.94”
Weight w/Mag: 18.7 oz
2015 BUG Legal: Yes
2017 BUG Legal: No - Exceeds Barrel Length Limit


Sig Sauer P290RS 9mm
http://www.sigsauer.com/CatalogProductD ... 290rs.aspx
Barrel Length 2.9”
Size (LxHxW): 5.5”x3.9”x1.1”
Weight w/Mag: 20.5 oz
2015 BUG Legal: Yes
2017 BUG Legal: Yes


CZ 2075 RAMI 9mm
http://cz-usa.com/product/cz-2075-rami- ... 4-rd-mags/
Barrel Length 3.05”
Size (LxHxW): 6.5”x4.7”x1.25”
Weight w/Mag: 25.9 oz
2015 BUG Legal: Yes
2017 BUG Legal: No - Exceeds Height Limits

[Edited to add Beretta Px4 Storm]

Beretta Px4 Storm SubCompact in 9mm
http://www.beretta.com/en-us/px4-storm-subcompact/
Barrel Length 3”
Size (LxHxW): 6.22”x4.8”x1.42”
Weight: 26.1 oz (w/o Mag)
2015 BUG Legal: No - Width Limit, looks like the Ambi-Safety is the issue.
2017 BUG Legal: No - Height, Width and Weight Limits

Beretta Px4 Storm SubCompact in .40S&W
http://www.beretta.com/en-us/px4-storm-subcompact/
Barrel Length 3”
Size (LxHxW): 6.22”x4.8”x1.42”
Weight: 26.1 oz (w/o Mag)
2015 BUG Legal: No - Width Limit, looks like the Ambi-Safety is the issue.
2017 BUG Legal: No - Height, Width and Weight Limits
Last edited by DanD on Tue Jan 10, 2017 12:57 am, edited 6 times in total.
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Re: IDPA 2017 Rulebook dramatically changes BUG size/weight limits

Postby Reds45ACP » Sun Nov 27, 2016 11:57 pm

Odds are the size/weight changes for CCP and BUG-S/R won't stay. It's not because of the shooters. It's because they eliminated Smith & Wesson AND Wilson Combat from the running for those classes.
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Re: IDPA 2017 Rulebook dramatically changes BUG size/weight limits

Postby C-dub » Mon Nov 28, 2016 6:24 am

Weren't the original requirements that the barrel be no longer than 3.8 inches? My 30SF originally met the requirements for the BUG category, but fails on the barrel length and weight now. No worries, though, since we dropped our IDPA membership after that last round of changes a year or two ago.
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Re: IDPA 2017 Rulebook dramatically changes BUG size/weight limits

Postby cmgee67 » Mon Nov 28, 2016 8:03 am

I don't see how it's only glock. There are way more Springfields that are listed Personally I'd choose glock. The xd don't really fit my hand nor do I like the looks
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Re: IDPA 2017 Rulebook dramatically changes BUG size/weight limits

Postby Lena » Mon Nov 28, 2016 8:29 am

After shooting 3 matches a week years ago and tapering off I finally dropped my membership due to the stupid rules changes, I admit I used to shoot every match I could but all this just lost my interest as well as the other rules, mag changes, retention etc, I shot a couple of ISPC and Duel matches and that did it. Our club also dropped them.
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Re: IDPA 2017 Rulebook dramatically changes BUG size/weight limits

Postby Skiprr » Mon Nov 28, 2016 3:12 pm

C-dub wrote:Weren't the original requirements that the barrel be no longer than 3.8 inches? My 30SF originally met the requirements for the BUG category, but fails on the barrel length and weight now.

You are absolutely correct.

The BUG classification first appeared as of the 4/15/2005 published rule book. In that version, a BUG was any handgun:

  • 5 rounds maximum per string; no reloads on the clock
  • Single or double action
  • .32 ACP or larger
  • Holding a maximum of 5 rounds
  • Semi-autos limited to a barrel length of 3.8" or less
  • Revolvers limited to a barrel length of 3" or less

There were otherwise no size or weight restrictions.

As of the October 2013 edition of the rule book, a BUG was:

  • 5 rounds maximum per string; no reloads on the clock
  • Single action, double action, double action only, or striker fired
  • Semi-automatic or revolver
  • Use a center fire caliber only (there were no other caliber specifications)
  • Semi-autos limited to a barrel length of 3.8" or less
  • Revolvers limited to a barrel length of 3" or less

Again, there were no other size or weight restrictions.

Then came the 2015 rule book, and things got more complicated. In 2005 to 2013, the BUG division was for club-level matches only and were not recognized in any form of sanctioned match. As of 2013, BUG matches could be sanctioned as a Specialty Match so long pre-approval was obtained from HQ. AS of 2015, BUG became a required division for Tier 1 matches, and an optional division, at the MD's discretion, for Tier 2 through Tier 5. Also, it now became a Match Director's discretion to set start condition, holster use, and on-the-clock reloads. Semi-autos were moved into a separate designation (BUG-S), and revolvers into BUG-R.

That's when the semi-auto caliber limit moved to .380 minimum, the max barrel length was reduced to 3.6", size and weight restrictions were introduced, plus more restrictions about magazine length, etc. Also, start condition was changed to one in the chamber plus 5 in the mag, with extra mags charged to 6 rounds. The revolver designation also changed to 6 rounds, not 5 (rule 8.2.6.7.1.6).

Quite interestingly, with the 2015 preliminary rules, BUG-R goes back to a 5-round capacity, while BUG-S stays the same as in 2015. :headscratch And, as noted, the barrel lengths got chopped again to 3.5" for BUG-S and 2.5" for BUG-R. And the size constraints dropped considerably...a whopping 2.25" OAL difference for BUG-R.

Dunno. Not even sure why I'm still trying to monitor the rule changes closely. Habit, I guess.

BTW, I've been keeping an archive of IDPA rules for a while now. I'm confident I have every published version since the 5/2/2001 rule book, and I believe I have everything going back to October 1996; most are searchable, but a couple of the older ones are scanned and not searchable. If any you ever want an older version for comparison, PM me and I can make it available.
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Re: IDPA 2017 Rulebook dramatically changes BUG size/weight limits

Postby Charles L. Cotton » Mon Nov 28, 2016 4:41 pm

I'm not at all happy that I cannot shoot my new CZ75 Compact PCR in CCP. I like to shoot what I carry, but if I were to keep shooting it, it would be in ESP and with a 3.8" barrel. Although I don't care about winning my Division/Class, I don't care to be embarrassed either. A 3.8" barrel in ESP is not only non-competitive, it would be embarrassing. That means it's back to my 1911 Gov't Model in 9mm for ESP or stick with CDP.

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Re: IDPA 2017 Rulebook dramatically changes BUG size/weight limits

Postby TEX » Sat Dec 03, 2016 3:10 pm

The BUG I was using, a Taurus G2, will now only fit if I modify and use KelTec P11 flat bottom mags and trim about 1/8 off the butt of the grip at the rear. I do have a 380 KelTec that I could use, but I seriously doubt it would make the power factor. IDPA keeps screwing be on guns. I started out shooting a Glock 23 (40 cal) with a stippled grip that I had done myself and cost me nothing but time. The 40 cartridge already put me at a slight disadvantage to those shooting 9mm in SSP, then IDPA changed the rules so that my stippled grip was now ESP. So a Glock 23 would have to compete with a 9mm 1911 or similar pistol just because I had improved the grip, but I could have put viciously rugged grip tape on it and been fine. I think Cotton is right - to change the rule book you need to start with lighter fluid and a match.

Perhaps they should make it so that all holsters had to be IWB and spare mags stuffed in a pocket, while they are at it.

I am expecting next they will limit all barrels except CDP to 4.5 inches, so all of those 5.25s become safe queens - after all, who do you know that carries a 5.25 inch gun.
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Re: IDPA 2017 Rulebook dramatically changes BUG size/weight limits

Postby Soccerdad1995 » Tue Dec 06, 2016 9:58 am

TEX wrote:The BUG I was using, a Taurus G2, will now only fit if I modify and use KelTec P11 flat bottom mags and trim about 1/8 off the butt of the grip at the rear. I do have a 380 KelTec that I could use, but I seriously doubt it would make the power factor. IDPA keeps screwing be on guns. I started out shooting a Glock 23 (40 cal) with a stippled grip that I had done myself and cost me nothing but time. The 40 cartridge already put me at a slight disadvantage to those shooting 9mm in SSP, then IDPA changed the rules so that my stippled grip was now ESP. So a Glock 23 would have to compete with a 9mm 1911 or similar pistol just because I had improved the grip, but I could have put viciously rugged grip tape on it and been fine. I think Cotton is right - to change the rule book you need to start with lighter fluid and a match.

Perhaps they should make it so that all holsters had to be IWB and spare mags stuffed in a pocket, while they are at it.

I am expecting next they will limit all barrels except CDP to 4.5 inches, so all of those 5.25s become safe queens - after all, who do you know that carries a 5.25 inch gun.


A devil's advocate might point out that if no one is carrying a gun with a 5.25 inch barrel, then it shouldn't be a part of IDPA based on the underlying principles at play.

Having just recently gotten into IDPA, I was surprised by the equipment rules in a number of ways. Most of the guns that I actually use for self defense are not "legal" for their logical divisions, for one reason or another, and at least one is not legal in any category. The SSP division in particular is very restrictive, but that is by design, I believe.

I actually had the opposite reaction when looking at the BUG category. To me, a BUG is a second, much smaller gun that is carried in addition to my primary carry weapon. It is something like a J frame revolver, or a very small semi-auto (Kahr PM9, Kel-Tec P3AT). I was surprised to see guns like a Glock 26 as a "BUG", for example.

I understand that certain trade-offs need to be made, and yes, I can always just shoot in the NFC division if I really want to get practice with my actual carry gun that might not be legal for whatever reason. Considering everything, IDPA is still a great training resource, and is a lot of fun.

The main problem, IMHO, is when they insist on constantly changing the equipment rules. Not everyone can afford to constantly buy different guns just so they can stay legal and competitive. Make a decision and stick with it, unless there is some clear and extremely compelling evidence that the original decision was wrong and needs to be changed. This applies to more than just equipment rules.
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Re: IDPA 2017 Rulebook dramatically changes BUG size/weight limits

Postby DanD » Sat Dec 24, 2016 2:16 am

The finalized IDPA 2017 Rulebook was recently released and the BUG weight limit was changed.

This podcast from Triangle Tactical has text from an email that was going around indicating changes to BUG were made to allow the Shield.
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Re: IDPA 2017 Rulebook dramatically changes BUG size/weight limits

Postby Beiruty » Sat Dec 24, 2016 3:26 am

What about PX4SC?
BTW, I do not shoot IDPA because of their arcane rules.
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Re: IDPA 2017 Rulebook dramatically changes BUG size/weight limits

Postby DanD » Sat Dec 24, 2016 11:34 am

I still need to go back and update my original post using the finalized 2017 rulebook size and weight limits for BUG. To summarize:
2015 IDPA BUG Limits:
- Barrel Length <= 3.60”
- Size 7.25” x 5.5” x 1.375”
- Weight 29.00 oz

Finalized 2017 IDPA BUG Limits:
- Barrel Length <= 3.50”
- Size 6.50” x 4.50” x 1.375”
- Weight 26.00 oz

Beretta Px4 Storm SubCompact in 9mm
http://www.beretta.com/en-us/px4-storm-subcompact/
Barrel Length 3”
Size (LxHxW): 6.22”x4.8”x1.42”
Weight: 26.1 oz (w/o Mag)
2015 BUG Legal: No - Width Limit, looks like the Ambi-Safety is the issue.
2017 BUG Legal: No - Height, Width and Weight Limits

Beretta Px4 Storm SubCompact in .40S&W
http://www.beretta.com/en-us/px4-storm-subcompact/
Barrel Length 3”
Size (LxHxW): 6.22”x4.8”x1.42”
Weight: 26.1 oz (w/o Mag)
2015 BUG Legal: No - Width Limit, looks like the Ambi-Safety is the issue.
2017 BUG Legal: No - Height, Width and Weight Limits
Last edited by DanD on Sat Dec 24, 2016 11:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: IDPA 2017 Rulebook dramatically changes BUG size/weight limits

Postby Charles L. Cotton » Sat Dec 24, 2016 11:40 am

Charles L. Cotton wrote:I'm not at all happy that I cannot shoot my new CZ75 Compact PCR in CCP. I like to shoot what I carry, but if I were to keep shooting it, it would be in ESP and with a 3.8" barrel. Although I don't care about winning my Division/Class, I don't care to be embarrassed either. A 3.8" barrel in ESP is not only non-competitive, it would be embarrassing. That means it's back to my 1911 Gov't Model in 9mm for ESP or stick with CDP.

Chas.


It looks like my CZ75 Compact will be legal for CCP.

Chas.
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Re: IDPA 2017 Rulebook dramatically changes BUG size/weight limits

Postby DanD » Sat Dec 24, 2016 12:11 pm

Charles L. Cotton wrote:
Charles L. Cotton wrote:I'm not at all happy that I cannot shoot my new CZ75 Compact PCR in CCP. I like to shoot what I carry, but if I were to keep shooting it, it would be in ESP and with a 3.8" barrel. Although I don't care about winning my Division/Class, I don't care to be embarrassed either. A 3.8" barrel in ESP is not only non-competitive, it would be embarrassing. That means it's back to my 1911 Gov't Model in 9mm for ESP or stick with CDP.

Chas.


It looks like my CZ75 Compact will be legal for CCP.

Chas.


That's good news Chas. Unfortunately for me, my Springfield XD9 SubCompact exceeds the height limit by 0.25" and I don't think I can squeeze that into the box even with the magazine compressed, so my BUG gun is out. I was excited about shooting PCC but now that will be an optional and they practically removed all mention of PCC from the rulebook. I'm bummed.
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Re: IDPA 2017 Rulebook dramatically changes BUG size/weight limits

Postby Charles L. Cotton » Sat Dec 24, 2016 3:00 pm

DanD wrote:
Charles L. Cotton wrote:
Charles L. Cotton wrote:I'm not at all happy that I cannot shoot my new CZ75 Compact PCR in CCP. I like to shoot what I carry, but if I were to keep shooting it, it would be in ESP and with a 3.8" barrel. Although I don't care about winning my Division/Class, I don't care to be embarrassed either. A 3.8" barrel in ESP is not only non-competitive, it would be embarrassing. That means it's back to my 1911 Gov't Model in 9mm for ESP or stick with CDP.

Chas.


It looks like my CZ75 Compact will be legal for CCP.

Chas.


That's good news Chas. Unfortunately for me, my Springfield XD9 SubCompact exceeds the height limit by 0.25" and I don't think I can squeeze that into the box even with the magazine compressed, so my BUG gun is out. I was excited about shooting PCC but now that will be an optional and they practically removed all mention of PCC from the rulebook. I'm bummed.


I'll have to use mags with a flat base and no buffer. Height is 5 1/4" and with a max. of 5 3/8", my mag bumpers would put me over the limit.

Chas.
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