Wish list for 2009

Relevant bills filed and their status

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KC5AV
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Re: Wish list for 2009

Postby KC5AV » Thu Jul 03, 2008 1:41 pm

I think it would be nice to have that clarified in the books... make it where every public entrance has to be posted.
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Re: Wish list for 2009

Postby bdickens » Fri Jul 04, 2008 10:47 am

KBCraig wrote:
Russell wrote:Like was stated above, make it clear in the statutes that if a 30.06 sign is not posted on every entrance door accessible to the public, ...

The law doesn't say any such thing. It says notice must be posted "conspicuous to the public".

There's no requirement that every door be posted.


That should be the requirement.
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Re: Wish list for 2009

Postby KBCraig » Fri Jul 04, 2008 10:56 am

bdickens wrote:
KBCraig wrote:
Russell wrote:Like was stated above, make it clear in the statutes that if a 30.06 sign is not posted on every entrance door accessible to the public, ...

The law doesn't say any such thing. It says notice must be posted "conspicuous to the public".

There's no requirement that every door be posted.

That should be the requirement.

What should, that every door be posted?

Posting on the doors themselves might not be conspicuous at all. Look at your typical busy store with automatic sliding doors: they're open most of the time, so shoppers approaching the doors could easily miss the notices.

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Re: Wish list for 2009

Postby LedJedi » Fri Jul 04, 2008 11:03 am

tornado wrote:
RKirby wrote:My wishes for 2009 are simple...give CHL's the right to carry anywhere that an LEO legally can, and remove the restrictions related to carrying in school buildings.

:iagree: :iagree: :iagree: :iagree: :iagree: :iagree: :iagree: :iagree: :iagree: :iagree:

:iagree: :iagree:


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Re: Wish list for 2009

Postby HerbM » Fri Jul 04, 2008 1:57 pm

LedJedi wrote:
tornado wrote:
RKirby wrote:My wishes for 2009 are simple...give CHL's the right to carry anywhere that an LEO legally can, and remove the restrictions related to carrying in school buildings.

:iagree: :iagree: :iagree: :iagree: :iagree: :iagree: :iagree: :iagree: :iagree: :iagree:

:iagree: :iagree:


:iagree: :iagree: :iagree: :iagree:

And if a LEO cannot carry and a lockup is provided for them to check their firearm (e.g., prison), then CHL firearms should be checkable too.
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Re: Wish list for 2009

Postby lrb111 » Fri Jul 04, 2008 7:50 pm

Since our governor said after the Virginia Tech shooting that "Texas CHLs should be able to carry everywhere that police can." Then quite simply our legislators need to serve it up. I think Perry would like Texas to have a "first" in this line of legislation, instead of following other state's leads.
It knocks 90% of our wishlist down in one fell swoop.
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Re: Wish list for 2009

Postby Bart » Sat Jul 05, 2008 5:34 pm

lrb111 wrote:Since our governor said after the Virginia Tech shooting that "Texas CHLs should be able to carry everywhere that police can." Then quite simply our legislators need to serve it up. I think Perry would like Texas to have a "first" in this line of legislation, instead of following other state's leads.

That would be great. Repeal 46.035 and simplify 46.15 by getting rid of (a)(6) and fixing (a)(4) to say
a person who is licensed to carry a concealed handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code;
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Re: Wish list for 2009

Postby KBCraig » Fri Jul 25, 2008 2:20 pm

Arrrrghh... I had a nice long post typed out last night, and the forum upgrade ate it. :???:

Anyhoo... I buttonholed my state rep (TSRA rated A+) at our local Friends of the NRA banquet last night. I asked if he had any particular legislative action in mind for 2009 regarding guns; he said he didn't, so I started down my wish list. :cool:

First was my concern about rumored challenges to unlicensed car carry. He said any bills about that would have to go through his committee, and "I guarantee they're not going anywhere."

He brought up parking lots, and his desire for a strong parking lot bill. We talked about the challenge of getting a bill passed in Texas with the number or large international corporations who oppose it. I didn't mention that I actually oppose such a bill as a violation of property owners' rights, because we just didn't have time for an in-depth discussion.

I mentioned that I like 30.06 because it gives property owners the right to control their premises, but does so in a way that puts the burden on them. It is highly specific, and hard for a CHL to accidentally violate. I told him the one thing I would like to see improved (which was the reason for 30.06 in the first place), is the penalty enhancement for criminal trespass while in possession of a deadly weapon. That jumps the penalty from a Class C misdemeanor to Class A. Unlike other states, Texas doesn't have a "violation" level offense below Class C, but Class C sure beats Class A!

I told him I support legalized open carry for licensees at a minimum, and any non-prohibited person at best. He didn't seem to have considered it before; he was non-committal, but not opposed.

We only had about 15 minutes before he had to leave, so I didn't get around to "school" being undefined, and all the problems that creates. I would push for protecting all school carry for licensees, which negates the problem, but at the very least the code needs to define "school" and which schools are off-limits.

He comes from a family of educators, so I'm going to follow up with him and push that issue. I'm sure he'd like it if his mother could carry in her classroom.

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Re: Wish list for 2009

Postby KBCraig » Fri Jul 25, 2008 2:25 pm

Bart wrote:That would be great. Repeal 46.035 and simplify 46.15 by getting rid of (a)(6) and fixing (a)(4) to say
a person who is licensed to carry a concealed handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code;

Even better, make it "any person who may legally carry a concealed handgun". There are thousands of non-CHLs who legally carry concealed in Texas (like me).

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Re: Wish list for 2009

Postby Liberty » Sat Jul 26, 2008 11:59 am

KBCraig wrote:He brought up parking lots, and his desire for a strong parking lot bill. We talked about the challenge of getting a bill passed in Texas with the number or large international corporations who oppose it. I didn't mention that I actually oppose such a bill as a violation of property owners' rights, because we just didn't have time for an in-depth discussion.

But what which property rights are more important? The Property rights of the car owner or the property rights of the publicly accessible parking lots. Should the parking lot owner employer have more property rights than the automobile owner? Just curious on your thought processes. My thinking is that a the privately owned car owner has more rights to privacy than the semipublic property owner has a right to access. Particularly when when it involves matters self protection. I understand that this line of reasoning opens a whole new can of worms. But if one can accept that an automobile is not only private property but not much different than real estate ( we do have titles on the them).
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Re: Wish list for 2009

Postby srothstein » Sun Jul 27, 2008 2:59 am

The property rights are based on the real property (the land). Thus, the property owner should be able to ban the gun in the car if he so desires.

The way I see it, he can ban it no matter what container you have it in. It could be in your holster, your briefcase, or your car. Either way, the land is his and he can do anything he wants on it.

I strongly believe the way to solve this problem is to clarify the liability issue instead. If there is a reasonably foreseeable chance of harm coming, and he disarms you, he is now responsible for your safety. Make that clear to everyone and I bet the bans drop faster.
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Re: Wish list for 2009

Postby stevie_d_64 » Sun Jul 27, 2008 7:12 am

DoubleJ wrote:come on parking lot bill. I'm shootin' small.


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Re: Wish list for 2009

Postby stevie_d_64 » Sun Jul 27, 2008 7:29 am

I know I am going to be extremely hated for this, but I saw this this morning, and haven't seen it pop up here yet...So I'll take the heat for burying it inside this thread as a semi-wish list suggestion from the steve-miester...

http://www.kvue.com/news/top/stories/07 ... ac2f3.html

I'll post the text of the link so you don't have to click off the site here...

BTW, as much as this issue has been flogged into submission by both sides of the argument for or against the idea, does anyone have a problem with "her" support for it??? I'll let y'all figure out who that is...

The first big hurdle I see is who might carry this bill, and who will sponsor/co-sponsor it??? Personally, if this one becomes the red herring of 2009, I'm ok with it, because it will give us more push on the other "less visible" pro-bills coming up in 2009...

Fight over open carry gun policy in Texas
10:39 PM CDT on Thursday, July 24, 2008
By JESSICA VESS
KVUE News

Imagine walking down the street and next to someone with a gun strapped to their hip. It's an image a group of Texans are hoping to turn into reality and they're gaining support by the thousands every day.

“This is a basic right,” said former state Legislator, Suzanna Hupp.

In Texas you can fire a gun, you can buy a gun, and you can walk around with a gun, but only if you have a concealed carry permit and the gun is out of sight.

“I feel safer. My home should it be breached, I can take care of it. Should somebody try to take my car, they'll be taken care of too. That's the way it should be,” said gun owner Charles Minter.

However, that’s not how it always works.

“Criminals by their very definition ignore the laws,” said Hupp.

In 1991 a gunman drove his truck into a Luby's restaurant in Killeen, TX. He got out and opened fire.

“That was before we were allowed to carry in the state of Texas,” said Hupp.

Hupp was there with her parents.

“He killed 23 people, including my parents. So I've been fairly angry since that time,” said Hupp.

In 1991 Texas didn't allow people to carry a gun.

“The only thing the regulations did was prevent people like me from being able to protect myself and my family. That's the only thing gun laws and gun control do. They prevent good people from protecting themselves and their families,” said Hupp.

Hupp helped pass the current concealed carry law in the mid 90's.

“It wasn't blood and chaos in the streets when we enacted the concealed carry,” said Hupp.

Now she wants more.

“We should allow people to carry. That means in their pocket, in their purse, on their forehead, on their hip. I don't care how they carry. If they can legally own a gun I think they should be able to carry it in public,” said Hupp.

She's not alone. An open carry petition online is gaining popularity by the thousands every day. More than 21,000 people have already signed the petition online.

“I couldn't have foreseen all the support that I've gained,” said petition creator, Ian McCarthy.

McCarthy posted the online petition in October last year.

“In Texas we're proud of all of our rights especially when it comes to gun rights,” said McCarthy.

McCarthy's petition will likely go to state lawmakers in the next session along with a proposal to enact an open carry policy in Texas.

“We're hoping for unlicensed, open carry,” said McCarthy.

The group is asking for a open carry law like what's already seen in at least ten states in the U.S. Those ten states allow open carry without a license. Another 12 states allow open carry but with a license.

Texas is just one of six states on record that completely bans open carry. However, to some the idea of seeing people with guns, doesn't sit well. Even some gun owners are worried an open carry policy could lead to more crime.

“It might just turn into the wild, wild west,” said Minter.

Those Wild West images where it seemed like everyone had a gun.

Guns in Texas though are pretty much kept to the range.

“I come here to shoot. I don't carry around on the street,” said gun owner, Steven Cui.

Cui is one of many gun owners that think owning a firearm is a privilege, not a right.

“If it's open then everybody's going to be walking around with a gun now. I think it's only for the cops and people that are licensed,” said gun owner, Kyle Ramirez.

Others worry open carry will get out of hand.

“You don't want to use a gun just because somebody called you or your mother a bad name. You only want to use a gun when you're in fear for your life,” said gun owner, and owner of the Astro Shooting Range in Florence, TX, L.E. Williams.

“People don't know what they're doing,” added firearms trainer Mike Nellis.

Nellis is a former state officer and now is a firearms trainer for the Texas Department of Public Safety. He supports gun rights; he even had a gun strapped to his belt the entire time we talked, but you couldn't tell by looking at him that he was armed. Nellis says that's the advantage of concealed carry.

“I think if it's going to require having a license and have requirements and there's no difference between that and a concealed carry law you might as well go to a concealed carry license,” said Nellis.

However, for Hupp and the thousands of others who have signed the online open carry petition, the issue boils down to one thing: our Bill of Rights.

“I believe that they will pass it. This time around I think that it will pass,” said Hupp.

State lawmakers are not yet saying how they will vote on the issue.

--end--

Now with all this said again, I am in total agreement with Charles and a lot of the (let's not be to hasty crowd)...I agree it might be too much to work to change the very basis in the penal code to make this happen, and since there has been no bill that I know of in the works to do this, and this is only a petition drive that I have seen so far...I think this is only going to be a blip on the radar in 2009...

My reasoning for posting this was to catalog yet another story on the issue for future reference, and not so much on any re-hashing of the discussion...
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Re: Wish list for 2009

Postby stevie_d_64 » Sun Jul 27, 2008 7:43 am

Liberty wrote:But what which property rights are more important? The Property rights of the car owner or the property rights of the publicly accessible parking lots. Should the parking lot owner employer have more property rights than the automobile owner? Just curious on your thought processes. My thinking is that a the privately owned car owner has more rights to privacy than the semipublic property owner has a right to access. Particularly when when it involves matters self protection. I understand that this line of reasoning opens a whole new can of worms. But if one can accept that an automobile is not only private property but not much different than real estate ( we do have titles on the them).


:thewave :hurry: :thumbs2:

I believe we are not going to have too much of a problem getting this thru this time...Yes, there will be the re-hashing of "their" side of the argument, a lot of whining and crying there (part 2)...The momentum is on our side this time...

The boundaries and thresholds of this issue are already set in the law...This is just a simple instruction to those who have a little problem in understanding where those lines are...

I find it kinda funny that whenever an issue like this occurs in Texas politics, that you need a law to instruct and define a previous law passed in an earlier session...Every two years it seems...Glad we seem to get our moneys worth... ;-) /sarcasm
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Re: Wish list for 2009

Postby anygunanywhere » Sun Jul 27, 2008 3:57 pm

I am going to save up my vacation so I can be in Austin next years to help convince our legislators to do the right thing.

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