Car carry in the 2009 session

Relevant bills filed and their status

Moderator: Charles L. Cotton

User avatar

Topic author
seamusTX
Senior Member
Posts: 13551
Joined: Fri May 12, 2006 12:04 pm
Location: Galveston

Car carry in the 2009 session

Postby seamusTX » Mon Jul 14, 2008 3:41 pm

Spawned from Subject: Carry w/o license on apartment property

Charles L. Cotton wrote:
seamusTX wrote:That part of H.B. 1815 is badly written. It says, ...

If this isn't fixed in a future legislative session, it will probably end up being decided by case law.
I can't go into why it's written that way, but it won't be "fixed." The entire car-carry concept is going to come under attack in 2009 and this is one of the provisions the police and prosecutors want removed.
Is there any evidence that actual criminals are getting away with anything? I mean robbers and gangsters, not people whose only offense would be UCW.

The only thing I've heard about this is a speculative statement in a newspaper article that was quoted here a while back.

This seems like another case where something that has not been a problem in about half the states is seen as a problem here.

- Jim
Fear, anger, hatred, and greed. The devil's all-you-can-eat buffet.

User avatar

Charles L. Cotton
Site Admin
Posts: 16702
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2004 9:31 pm
Location: Friendswood, TX
Contact:

Re: Car carry in the 2009 session

Postby Charles L. Cotton » Mon Jul 14, 2008 4:05 pm

I am not aware of any real problems, merely the speculation and scare tactics of the Dallas County DA, our own DA's office, and some police departments.

Chas.
Image

User avatar

Liberty
Senior Member
Posts: 5542
Joined: Mon Jul 03, 2006 8:49 pm
Location: Galveston
Contact:

Re: Car carry in the 2009 session

Postby Liberty » Mon Jul 14, 2008 8:39 pm

Charles L. Cotton wrote:I am not aware of any real problems, merely the speculation and scare tactics of the Dallas County DA, our own DA's office, and some police departments.

Chas.

Do you you mean the Harris County DA? I thought that got fixed?
Liberty''s Blog
"Today, we need a nation of Minutemen, citizens who are not only prepared to take arms, but citizens who regard the preservation of freedom as the basic purpose of their daily life and who are willing to consciously work and sacrifice for that freedom." John F. Kennedy

User avatar

agbullet2k1
Senior Member
Posts: 553
Joined: Sun Apr 13, 2008 12:55 pm
Location: Houston

Re: Car carry in the 2009 session

Postby agbullet2k1 » Mon Jul 14, 2008 8:45 pm

Liberty wrote:
Charles L. Cotton wrote:I am not aware of any real problems, merely the speculation and scare tactics of the Dallas County DA, our own DA's office, and some police departments.

Chas.

Do you you mean the Harris County DA? I thought that got fixed?

Like a clunker, the Harris County DA office needs a lot of routine maintenance.
Walther P99AS 9mm
Beretta PX4sc 9mm
Walther P99 .40 S&W
FrankenAR-15
Type II Phaser

User avatar

Charles L. Cotton
Site Admin
Posts: 16702
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2004 9:31 pm
Location: Friendswood, TX
Contact:

Re: Car carry in the 2009 session

Postby Charles L. Cotton » Mon Jul 14, 2008 9:11 pm

Liberty wrote:
Charles L. Cotton wrote:I am not aware of any real problems, merely the speculation and scare tactics of the Dallas County DA, our own DA's office, and some police departments.

Chas.

Do you you mean the Harris County DA? I thought that got fixed?


Rosenthal resigned, but I saw one of his underlings bad-mouthing the Castle Doctrine and lying in the process. I can't say anymore.

Chas.
Image

User avatar

KC5AV
Senior Member
Posts: 1827
Joined: Mon Nov 19, 2007 5:24 pm
Location: Marshall

Re: Car carry in the 2009 session

Postby KC5AV » Mon Jul 14, 2008 9:45 pm

A politician lied? I'm shocked.
NRA lifetime member


Pinkycatcher
Senior Member
Posts: 490
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 4:25 pm
Location: Fort Worth

Re: Car carry in the 2009 session

Postby Pinkycatcher » Mon Jul 14, 2008 10:46 pm

KC5AV wrote:A politician lied? I'm shocked.


I thought we elect the best liar? That's who I've been voting for, am I wrong?


srothstein
Senior Member
Posts: 3867
Joined: Sat Dec 16, 2006 8:27 pm
Location: Luling, TX

Re: Car carry in the 2009 session

Postby srothstein » Sat Jul 19, 2008 12:48 am

There are a lot of police officers who do not like this law. They say they are letting gang members go when they have guns on them. When I asked why, they say the DA says to not prosecute. I pointed out that if they can prove the person is a gang member then he is still unlawfully carrying. So far, no one has come up with a way to prove a person is a gang member that a DA will accept. Cops want to go with what they "know" about a person (which is probably true but not good enough for court) and D.A.'s are not trusting the police databases where they try to track gang members.

I expect this to be one of the bases for the argument. How do you prove someone is in a criminal street gang? We might be able to hurt the argument if we wrote a rebuttable presumption in that a member who had been documented in the local police department as a gang member was a gang member. I kind of would rather leave it alone - gang members have their legal rights too and if they are not committing crimes, who cares if they have a gun?
Steve Rothstein

User avatar

Charles L. Cotton
Site Admin
Posts: 16702
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2004 9:31 pm
Location: Friendswood, TX
Contact:

Re: Car carry in the 2009 session

Postby Charles L. Cotton » Sat Jul 19, 2008 8:03 am

srothstein wrote:There are a lot of police officers who do not like this law. They say they are letting gang members go when they have guns on them. When I asked why, they say the DA says to not prosecute. I pointed out that if they can prove the person is a gang member then he is still unlawfully carrying. So far, no one has come up with a way to prove a person is a gang member that a DA will accept. Cops want to go with what they "know" about a person (which is probably true but not good enough for court) and D.A.'s are not trusting the police databases where they try to track gang members.

I expect this to be one of the bases for the argument. How do you prove someone is in a criminal street gang? We might be able to hurt the argument if we wrote a rebuttable presumption in that a member who had been documented in the local police department as a gang member was a gang member. I kind of would rather leave it alone - gang members have their legal rights too and if they are not committing crimes, who cares if they have a gun?


I think this is a big part of the argument. As you say however, if a person is a gang member, he/she's unlawfully carrying. If the officer only thinks the person is a gang member, then he/she is a citizen the officer doesn't like. We all know gang members are going to carry regardless of the law; we also know good, honest, otherwise law-abiding citizens will be arrested for UCW if the law is changed back to pre-9/1/07 status. If the DA won't prosecute when the officer has evidence a person is in a gang as described in Chp. 71 of the Penal Code, then the DA needs to be changed, not the law.

Chas.
Image


longtooth
Senior Member
Posts: 11907
Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2005 3:31 pm
Location: Angelina County

Re: Car carry in the 2009 session

Postby longtooth » Sat Jul 19, 2008 8:43 am

:iagree: :hurry: :thumbs2: :patriot:
Image
Carry 24-7 or guess right.
CHL Instructor. http://www.pdtraining.us
NRA/TSRA Life Member - TFC Member #11

User avatar

Bart
Senior Member
Posts: 718
Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2007 2:23 pm
Location: Deep in the Heart
Contact:

Re: Car carry in the 2009 session

Postby Bart » Sun Jul 27, 2008 5:40 pm

srothstein wrote:How do you prove someone is in a criminal street gang?

How do you prove anything to a jury? If a DA doesn't think he can convince a jury then Chas is right when he says the answer is to change the DA instead of changing the law.

Also, if the "gang member" has prior felony conviction then he's not allowed to have a handgun so they can arrest him for felon in possession and not worry about UCW.
Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.


Return to “2007 Texas Legislative Session”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest