Conceal carry at work

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Trivera
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Conceal carry at work

Postby Trivera » Tue Sep 13, 2016 2:21 pm

Currently at my job we no 30.06 or 30.07 signs but the manager says we aren't allowed to carry at work... Should I go against his words cause they don't have any signs up or listen and don't carry at all


txcharvel
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Re: Conceal carry at work

Postby txcharvel » Tue Sep 13, 2016 2:43 pm

This isn't necessarily a legal notice question, it's an employment question. There is no 30.06, so you can carry...but if you do you are being insubordinate in going against the verbal instructions of your supervisor. You're not trespassing, but you could be fired.

If there is no signage, why did you ask?


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Re: Conceal carry at work

Postby Papa_Tiger » Tue Sep 13, 2016 2:48 pm

txcharvel wrote:This isn't necessarily a legal notice question, it's an employment question. There is no 30.06, so you can carry...but if you do you are being insubordinate in going against the verbal instructions of your supervisor. You're not trespassing, but you could be fired.

If there is no signage, why did you ask?
Signs are not the only method of conveying the point of TPC 30.06. An oral notification (which the OP has received) serves as well. If you carry after having been told by your manager, you are committing a Class A misdemeanor and risking your license.

TPC 30.06 wrote:Sec. 30.06. TRESPASS BY LICENSE HOLDER WITH A CONCEALED HANDGUN.
(a) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder:
(1) carries a concealed handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, on property of another without effective consent; and
(2) received notice that entry on the property by a license holder with a concealed handgun was forbidden.

(b) For purposes of this section, a person receives notice if the owner of the property or someone with apparent authority to act for the owner provides notice to the person by oral or written communication.


ETA TPC 30.06
Last edited by Papa_Tiger on Tue Sep 13, 2016 2:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Jusme
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Re: Conceal carry at work

Postby Jusme » Tue Sep 13, 2016 2:49 pm

Trivera wrote:Currently at my job we no 30.06 or 30.07 signs but the manager says we aren't allowed to carry at work... Should I go against his words cause they don't have any signs up or listen and don't carry at all





That constitutes effective notice, even without signage. While I don't know if they would file trespass charges against you, it will definitely cost you you job if you are caught. I would not advise it.
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TVGuy
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Re: Conceal carry at work

Postby TVGuy » Tue Sep 13, 2016 2:57 pm

Papa_Tiger wrote:
txcharvel wrote:This isn't necessarily a legal notice question, it's an employment question. There is no 30.06, so you can carry...but if you do you are being insubordinate in going against the verbal instructions of your supervisor. You're not trespassing, but you could be fired.

If there is no signage, why did you ask?
Signs are not the only method of conveying the point of TPC 30.06. An oral notification (which the OP has received) serves as well. If you carry after having been told by your manager, you are committing a Class A misdemeanor and risking your license.

TPC 30.06 wrote:Sec. 30.06. TRESPASS BY LICENSE HOLDER WITH A CONCEALED HANDGUN.
(a) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder:
(1) carries a concealed handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, on property of another without effective consent; and
(2) received notice that entry on the property by a license holder with a concealed handgun was forbidden.

(b) For purposes of this section, a person receives notice if the owner of the property or someone with apparent authority to act for the owner provides notice to the person by oral or written communication.


ETA TPC 30.06


I agree he has been given notice, but wouldn't it be a class C? Unless he then came back on the premises, was told he could not have the gun there, and refused to leave?

(d) An offense under this section is a Class C misdemeanor punishable by a fine not to exceed $200, except that the offense is a Class A misdemeanor if it is shown on the trial of the offense that, after entering the property, the license holder was personally given the notice by oral communication described by Subsection (b) and subsequently failed to depart.


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Re: Conceal carry at work

Postby Papa_Tiger » Tue Sep 13, 2016 3:14 pm

TVGuy wrote:I agree he has been given notice, but wouldn't it be a class C? Unless he then came back on the premises, was told he could not have the gun there, and refused to leave?

(d) An offense under this section is a Class C misdemeanor punishable by a fine not to exceed $200, except that the offense is a Class A misdemeanor if it is shown on the trial of the offense that, after entering the property, the license holder was personally given the notice by oral communication described by Subsection (b) and subsequently failed to depart.
A good DA would be able to make the case that he was orally notified and that any time he comes onto the premises with a concealed handgun, he has failed to depart after having been orally notified. Simple matter though. If the OP is caught, his manager (or someone with apparent authority) just has to say "get out now, you know that guns aren't allowed here" and then it would certainly be a Class A if he doesn't leave immediately.

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mojo84
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Re: Conceal carry at work

Postby mojo84 » Tue Sep 13, 2016 4:38 pm

Trivera wrote:Currently at my job we no 30.06 or 30.07 signs but the manager says we aren't allowed to carry at work... Should I go against his words cause they don't have any signs up or listen and don't carry at all


Do you want to risk being fired?
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Re: Conceal carry at work

Postby casp625 » Tue Sep 13, 2016 4:56 pm

Papa_Tiger wrote:
(d) An offense under this section is a Class C misdemeanor punishable by a fine not to exceed $200, except that the offense is a Class A misdemeanor if it is shown on the trial of the offense that, after entering the property, the license holder was personally given the notice by oral communication described by Subsection (b) and subsequently failed to depart.
A good DA would be able to make the case that he was orally notified and that any time he comes onto the premises with a concealed handgun, he has failed to depart after having been orally notified. Simple matter though. If the OP is caught, his manager (or someone with apparent authority) just has to say "get out now, you know that guns aren't allowed here" and then it would certainly be a Class A if he doesn't leave immediately.

The law is quite clear: AFTER ENTERING THE PROPERTY(with a handgun), if the person is given oral notification and fails to depart, then they risk losing license with Class A charge. Until then, they face a Class C charge, if it can be proven they were indeed given notification.

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Lynyrd
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Re: Conceal carry at work

Postby Lynyrd » Tue Sep 13, 2016 7:30 pm

Trivera wrote:Currently at my job we no 30.06 or 30.07 signs but the manager says we aren't allowed to carry at work... Should I go against his words cause they don't have any signs up or listen and don't carry at all


You need to work on the manager's frame of mind. I can't tell you how to get him to change his mind because every person has their own things that make him tick. If you know him well, bide your time and bring it up when the opportunity arises where he won't be defensive. If you can every get him to tell you WHY, then study on that and figure out how to remove his objections.

Statistics on how safe and crime free LTC members are, a trip to the range (your treat), education on guns in general, whatever he might listen to. I have managed to get a change in my employer's policy that allows us to carry after management approval. Long story that I won't go into here. If you want to PM me, I'll try to explain. You can also look back at my posts to see the highlights of what happened at my place of employment.
Do what you say you're gonna do.


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Trivera
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Re: Conceal carry at work

Postby Trivera » Wed Sep 14, 2016 7:15 am

Ok thanks for the input guys..I Did Not carry at all while I'm at work not gonna risk my job over it


Agoraphobic Penguin
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Re: Conceal carry at work

Postby Agoraphobic Penguin » Wed Sep 14, 2016 7:53 am

mojo84 wrote:
Trivera wrote:Currently at my job we no 30.06 or 30.07 signs but the manager says we aren't allowed to carry at work... Should I go against his words cause they don't have any signs up or listen and don't carry at all


Do you want to risk being fired?


Would you rather risk your life than risk being fired? I understand the dilemma here, and I'll admit that I am one of the lucky few who are legally able to carry at work. I am not condoning anything illegal here but just because something is legal doesn't always mean that you should do it and just because something is illegal does not mean that you can't do it. Criminals do not care about words on paper and the consequences of violating those laws while we card holders fear the risks of illegal carrying. Which we should because you can lose your license and go to jail if you illegally carried. So it really is up to you, you have the free will and you will just have to weigh the risks. Would you rather potentially risk your life or you'd rather risk your job? I mean you can always get another job but you can't et another life. I think the next job you get you should not ask your employer about the gun policy of they don't have a sign up and just pocket carry so no one would ever spot your holster clips or bulge on your midline. This would work great unless you signed some sort of employee policy handbook were it stated a no gun policy. Now you have to talk with your employer to see if they will change their mind. Good luck and if you do happen to persuade them, make sure you get their permissin in writing, either email or a small note. CYA. I myself have never talked to my employers about guns because I have not had any no gun policies but if I were to unfortunately get a job where I can't carry and it is communicated to me, I'd rather try to get permission or find another job. This is where documentation helps you, document your training and range practice and courses, this might help you convince that you are a responsible citizen. I know times are tough si really consider the risks of your current job before you quit, quitting may be harder for those with professions or those who spent 10 years in school to get that job.


rm9792
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Re: Conceal carry at work

Postby rm9792 » Wed Sep 14, 2016 7:55 am

I would like to know why he wants to carry at work. It could be a matter of his life if he doesn't carry. My location has had multiple armed robberies of our techs while in the field every year. If I was a field tech still then I would carry no matter what. Its a high paying job, low risk of getting caught and there is a definite proven threat to my life. My life is more important. The bad guys know our people have iphones and ipads plus lots of copper and tools on their trucks and that our techs will give it up. It is real easy to all righteous about effective notice but in the real world its a lot of gray areas and bad things happen.


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Re: Conceal carry at work

Postby Agoraphobic Penguin » Wed Sep 14, 2016 7:59 am

Trivera wrote:Ok thanks for the input guys..I Did Not carry at all while I'm at work not gonna risk my job over it

Another option is to invest in some ballistic armor. You don't need to get a vest, but rather a panel to put in your back pack or laptop bag. AR500 makes some affordable panels and I hear good things about Austin-based Bulletproofme.com. They also make ballistic clipboards or police use. You could always keep a small shield inside your desk or work vehicle to improve your odds.


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Re: Conceal carry at work

Postby Mike S » Wed Sep 14, 2016 8:02 am

Trivera wrote:Ok thanks for the input guys..I Did Not carry at all while I'm at work not gonna risk my job over it


I think that's the prudent thing to do. However, keep in mind that generally you can still keep it secured in your vehicle while at work. There's a couple caveats to this, like written permission is required if you're employed by a school; certain parking areas are off limits at chemical plants; company owned vehicles still fall under company policy; etc. This allows you a measure of self defense while in transit, & there's multiple threads on this forum regarding measures you can take to secure the firearm inside your vehicle while you're away from it.
Mike S.


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Re: Conceal carry at work

Postby NNT » Sat Sep 17, 2016 9:34 am

I assume a work vehicle is considered the same as the office? If verbally informed guns are not allowed in vehicles during new hire orientation, and one is found at later date, it is a legal matter as well as a firing offence?


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