Where to run a Pre Application Check

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CrashTxVeeDub
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Where to run a Pre Application Check

Postby CrashTxVeeDub » Wed Feb 15, 2017 11:04 pm

I just got my LTC and naturally there's always a friend who's interested in the process who has questions. My coworker wants to have his background check done before he applies so he doesn't lose money with the state if he flunks. Suggestions on where to do a comprehensive check? FBI maybe?

Thanks!

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Re: Where to run a Pre Application Check

Postby Liberty » Thu Feb 16, 2017 7:18 am

Tell him he can wait until the bill to eliminate the fees becomes law.
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Re: Where to run a Pre Application Check

Postby Scott B. » Thu Feb 16, 2017 11:13 am

CrashTxVeeDub wrote:I just got my LTC and naturally there's always a friend who's interested in the process who has questions. My coworker wants to have his background check done before he applies so he doesn't lose money with the state if he flunks. Suggestions on where to do a comprehensive check? FBI maybe?

Thanks!



Can he buy a gun and complete a 4473 w/ out issue? That's one clue.

Here's what else he needs to know:

http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/D ... tm#411.171

Read Section 411 ~ Sec. 411.172. ELIGIBILITY (this last one will spell all the dis-qualifiers out)
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Skiprr
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Re: Where to run a Pre Application Check

Postby Skiprr » Thu Feb 16, 2017 12:21 pm

To my knowledge there's no practical way to duplicate the DPS background check. There are some inexpensive services out there that offer basic criminal-background checks for around $10 to $20, but to me that's simply wasted money. A person already knows if he or she is going to hit on that sort of list. Slightly more thorough checks can be had for around $20 to $80, but the expanded searches there more typically have to do with things a hiring manager wants to know, e.g., credit rating, public records for bankruptcy, that sort of thing; stuff that doesn't necessarily disqualify you from an LTC.

But there really is a reason it takes the state a while to complete background checks for licenses. It isn't just a quick 60-second check of computerized national and state databases. The LTC check can go down to the county level--some counties' records are more computerized than others--and there's no real statute of limitations. Convictions of a Class B or higher will almost certainly appear on a quick database search but, for example, an arrest might show up on the DPS check with no disposition status even though the case was dismissed. Paying half the cost of the LTC application fee in advance to try to turn up everything DPS might find is not cost-effective, and may even be a waste of time.

Honestly, I get suspicious when someone asks me a question like that...not the question you asked, but the one your friend asked you. It doesn't take overly long to read the LTC eligibility requirements. And unless someone tells me they were either too drunk or too stoned at the time--perhaps a very good reason to not pursue a license anyway--to remember whether or not they were arrested, I call bogus. The exact date might escape someone, but not that he was processed, or where. Unless, that is, there are so many arrests on the record that he truly can't distinguish among them. :???:

If someone has been arrested but is uncertain about the final disposition, contact the county seat first. For many Texas counties, it's around $1 per page for certified copies, and about $5 if a records search is needed. Do that homework in advance--it's time and a couple of bucks well spent if he needs the detail--then be sure to include the specifics on the LTC application and attach the supporting documents. A week up-front could save a month or two of unnecessary waiting on the back-end.

There are nuances about time to wait after a misdemeanor conviction, sealed or expunged records, or matters similar. We have some highly qualified people here who are both attorneys and LTC instructors. They won't give legal advice, but someone with a detailed question is probably going to get about the best opinion they could ask for, then make an informed decision whether to apply now or wait.

Note: I am not one of those highly qualified people; this is just personal opinion from over a decade of watching the CHL/LTC journeys of a whole slew of folks here on the Forum.
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Re: Where to run a Pre Application Check

Postby RossA » Thu Feb 16, 2017 1:38 pm

I can see at least one legitimate reason for doing a check like this. Government agencies are not always the best at posting correct records, documents, etc. For example, I have known of people who have received deferred adjudication for a crime, successfully fulfilled their probation, and thought that the charge went away as it should have. However, because the proper documents were not filed in the right place, or at all, charges might still show pending, or even show a conviction because there is no record of successful completion of conditions.
Also, there might be someone with a similar name whose criminal record shows up on your background check.
These are just a couple of reasons why regular folks would want to know what the government says about them in the records.
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Re: Where to run a Pre Application Check

Postby ScottDLS » Thu Feb 16, 2017 1:39 pm

Skiprr wrote:....
But there really is a reason it takes the state a while to complete background checks for licenses. It isn't just a quick 60-second check of computerized national and state databases. The LTC check can go down to the county level--some counties' records are more computerized than others--and there's no real statute of limitations. Convictions of a Class B or higher will almost certainly appear on a quick database search but, for example, an arrest might show up on the DPS check with no disposition status even though the case was dismissed. Paying half the cost of the LTC application fee in advance to try to turn up everything DPS might find is not cost-effective, and may even be a waste of time.
....


Are you sure about this? I say this because based on the information provided on the application, there's really not a whole lot the DPS can do besides a computer check and the FBI fingerprint check against NCIC and the auto NICS. What are they going down to the county level to check, assuming you don't pop up on the computer scan? What if you lived out of state for 5 years then moved to Dallas County (automated) two years ago? How are they going to get that deferred adjudication from 20 years ago when you were visiting Alaska? If it isn't in NCIC it didn't happen. :shock:

There are people who have reported getting a LTC in 3 weeks on their initial pass. What is DPS going to find in 2 weeks that you didn't list on your app and isn't in FBI database?
4/13/1996 Completed CHL Class, 4/16/1996 Fingerprints, Affidavits, and Application Mailed, 10/4/1996 Received CHL, renewed 1998, 2002, 2006, 2011, 2016...). "ATF... Uhhh...heh...heh....Alcohol, tobacco, and GUNS!! Cool!!!!"

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Re: Where to run a Pre Application Check

Postby Skiprr » Thu Feb 16, 2017 2:08 pm

ScottDLS wrote:
Skiprr wrote:....
But there really is a reason it takes the state a while to complete background checks for licenses. It isn't just a quick 60-second check of computerized national and state databases. The LTC check can go down to the county level--some counties' records are more computerized than others--and there's no real statute of limitations. Convictions of a Class B or higher will almost certainly appear on a quick database search but, for example, an arrest might show up on the DPS check with no disposition status even though the case was dismissed. Paying half the cost of the LTC application fee in advance to try to turn up everything DPS might find is not cost-effective, and may even be a waste of time.
....


Are you sure about this? I say this because based on the information provided on the application, there's really not a whole lot the DPS can do besides a computer check and the FBI fingerprint check against NCIC and the auto NICS. What are they going down to the county level to check, assuming you don't pop up on the computer scan? What if you lived out of state for 5 years then moved to Dallas County (automated) two years ago? How are they going to get that deferred adjudication from 20 years ago when you were visiting Alaska? If it isn't in NCIC it didn't happen. :shock:

There are people who have reported getting a LTC in 3 weeks on their initial pass. What is DPS going to find in 2 weeks that you didn't list on your app and isn't in FBI database?

Sure about what? That "the LTC check can go down to the county level"? Sure I am. That's one reason GC §411.176 has language about the "director's designee in the geographical area."

That every application is scrupulously checked in all umpteen out-of-state counties you've lived in since 1975? No; I'm absolutely not sure of that.

Are you categorically stating that if an LTC applicant fails to disclose an arrest on the application for which a conviction did not come up in NICS or NCIC, that all is squeaky clean and DPS will never be the wiser that the arrest was not disclosed?
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Re: Where to run a Pre Application Check

Postby ScottDLS » Thu Feb 16, 2017 3:25 pm

Skiprr wrote:
ScottDLS wrote:
Skiprr wrote:....
But there really is a reason it takes the state a while to complete background checks for licenses. It isn't just a quick 60-second check of computerized national and state databases. The LTC check can go down to the county level--some counties' records are more computerized than others--and there's no real statute of limitations. Convictions of a Class B or higher will almost certainly appear on a quick database search but, for example, an arrest might show up on the DPS check with no disposition status even though the case was dismissed. Paying half the cost of the LTC application fee in advance to try to turn up everything DPS might find is not cost-effective, and may even be a waste of time.
....


Are you sure about this? I say this because based on the information provided on the application, there's really not a whole lot the DPS can do besides a computer check and the FBI fingerprint check against NCIC and the auto NICS. What are they going down to the county level to check, assuming you don't pop up on the computer scan? What if you lived out of state for 5 years then moved to Dallas County (automated) two years ago? How are they going to get that deferred adjudication from 20 years ago when you were visiting Alaska? If it isn't in NCIC it didn't happen. :shock:

There are people who have reported getting a LTC in 3 weeks on their initial pass. What is DPS going to find in 2 weeks that you didn't list on your app and isn't in FBI database?

Sure about what? That "the LTC check can go down to the county level"? Sure I am. That's one reason GC §411.176 has language about the "director's designee in the geographical area."

That every application is scrupulously checked in all umpteen out-of-state counties you've lived in since 1975? No; I'm absolutely not sure of that.

Are you categorically stating that if an LTC applicant fails to disclose an arrest on the application for which a conviction did not come up in NICS or NCIC, that all is squeaky clean and DPS will never be the wiser that the arrest was not disclosed?


No. I am suggesting that there's little chance that if a preliminary computer check does not come up with a disqualifier, that DPS will do any further checking, in the absence of your putting something on the app.
4/13/1996 Completed CHL Class, 4/16/1996 Fingerprints, Affidavits, and Application Mailed, 10/4/1996 Received CHL, renewed 1998, 2002, 2006, 2011, 2016...). "ATF... Uhhh...heh...heh....Alcohol, tobacco, and GUNS!! Cool!!!!"

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CrashTxVeeDub
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Re: Where to run a Pre Application Check

Postby CrashTxVeeDub » Thu Feb 16, 2017 7:45 pm

Thanks for the responses. My check took 90 days to complete, I had a lot of "flags" from my youth that likely prompted my receiving the "fine toothed comb".

My coworker is specifically concerned about the child support issue. He's from California, been in Texas about 10 years or so. He's owed child support back in CA and we're holding his DL a couple years ago. CA Child Support discharged his child support at the request of the Mother. CA then released the hold on his DL. He's afraid CA may think he still owes money but doesn't want to call them, (doubt he even knows who to call anyway) for fear of waking the sleeping dog. Hope that helps clarity of the specific situation.


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