One in the pipe for newbies like me

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Alaska2texas
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One in the pipe for newbies like me

Postby Alaska2texas » Thu May 04, 2017 3:11 pm

:cool:

So I've been carrying out for a couple of months and for that duration of that time I have been carrying with one in the pipe of my Glock 33 nine round magazine plus one in the chamber.

Like all of the other new guys I was always afraid to walk around with one loaded just in case magically it went off.

I just wanted to let the new guys know like I had to learn as long as you have a good holster I have a Kydex, and it covers the trigger guard there is no way that the trigger will be polled unless it is by a human hand. My buyer or trigger pull is 5.5 pounds before the striker hits, that is basically someone trying to pull it with their finger. One way that I got comfortable with it was to think before I had a round in the chamber, was there ever a time that I would remove my gun from the holster and the trigger was pulled? NEVER. I have learned from other people on this site that if you're walking around open carry or concealed carry without one ready to go, you have already lost the battle have you ever come in confrontation with someone that is ready to harm you because chances are their firearm is already ready to go.

My point being is that you can always have one ready to go just never remove your firearm from the holster unless you plan on using it to defend your life. Even when i get home and removed from IWB, it never leaves the holster.

Cheers and carry on!!!
"The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed"


crazy2medic
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Re: One in the pipe for newbies like me

Postby crazy2medic » Thu May 04, 2017 3:19 pm

The gun doesn't leave the holster unless you intend to use it!
Government, like fire is a dangerous servant and a fearful master
If you ain't paranoid you ain't paying attention

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ScottDLS
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Re: One in the pipe for newbies like me

Postby ScottDLS » Thu May 04, 2017 3:20 pm

My gun leaves the holster when I get ready to clean it, or put in in my safe... ;-)
4/13/1996 Completed CHL Class, 4/16/1996 Fingerprints, Affidavits, and Application Mailed, 10/4/1996 Received CHL, renewed 1998, 2002, 2006, 2011, 2016...). "ATF... Uhhh...heh...heh....Alcohol, tobacco, and GUNS!! Cool!!!!"


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Alaska2texas
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Re: One in the pipe for newbies like me

Postby Alaska2texas » Thu May 04, 2017 3:25 pm

Alaska2texas wrote::cool:

So I've been carrying out for a couple of months and for that duration of that time I have been carrying with one in the pipe of my Glock 33 nine round magazine plus one in the chamber.

Like all of the other new guys I was always afraid to walk around with one loaded just in case magically it went off.

I just wanted to let the new guys know like I had to learn as long as you have a good holster I have a Kydex, and it covers the trigger guard there is no way that the trigger will be polled unless it is by a human hand. My buyer or trigger pull is 5.5 pounds before the striker hits, that is basically someone trying to pull it with their finger. One way that I got comfortable with it was to think before I had a round in the chamber, was there ever a time that I would remove my gun from the holster and the trigger was pulled? NEVER. I have learned from other people on this site that if you're walking around open carry or concealed carry without one ready to go, you have already lost the battle have you ever come in confrontation with someone that is ready to harm you because chances are their firearm is already ready to go.

My point being is that you can always have one ready to go just never remove your firearm from the holster unless you plan on using it to defend your life. Even when i get home and removed from IWB, it never leaves the holster.

Cheers and carry on!!!


I hope everyone can excuse my spelling I use talk to text sometimes when I'm lazy Haha
"The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed"


RossA
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Re: One in the pipe for newbies like me

Postby RossA » Thu May 04, 2017 3:54 pm

My gun comes out of the holster when it is off of my body at home. I don't leave it in the holster when it is just laying there. If I have to grab it with one hand, I don't want anything between me and the gun.
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The danger gone, the trouble righted,
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Re: One in the pipe for newbies like me

Postby bblhd672 » Thu May 04, 2017 4:05 pm

RossA wrote:My gun comes out of the holster when it is off of my body at home. I don't leave it in the holster when it is just laying there. If I have to grab it with one hand, I don't want anything between me and the gun.


Same here. Gun laying in holster requires two hands to bring to ready position - one to hold holster and one to draw. I prefer to keep one hand free for using my flashlight.

Obviously if you have some sort of holster bracket that you attach the holster to when it is off your body then this wouldn't apply.
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crazy2medic
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Re: One in the pipe for newbies like me

Postby crazy2medic » Thu May 04, 2017 5:25 pm

I was referring to carrying about town, at home mine is on the nightstand with a spare mag at the ready no holster :banghead:
Government, like fire is a dangerous servant and a fearful master
If you ain't paranoid you ain't paying attention

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Re: One in the pipe for newbies like me

Postby G26ster » Thu May 04, 2017 6:50 pm

:shock: So what happens if you decide to light your "pipe." :blowup

:biggrinjester:

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Re: One in the pipe for newbies like me

Postby RogueUSMC » Fri May 05, 2017 8:09 am

G26ster wrote::shock: So what happens if you decide to light your "pipe." :blowup

:biggrinjester:

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Re: One in the pipe for newbies like me

Postby oljames3 » Fri May 05, 2017 11:12 am

RossA wrote:My gun comes out of the holster when it is off of my body at home. I don't leave it in the holster when it is just laying there. If I have to grab it with one hand, I don't want anything between me and the gun.

There are many things I really like about my Safariland ALS 7378 holster. One is that I can draw one-handed when the holster is off of my belt.

You use your thumb to release the ALS retention which pushes the holster off of the pistol with the holster is not attached to the belt.

I also use the QLS attachment so that I can attach and detach the holster from my belt without unbuckling.
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thetexan
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Re: One in the pipe for newbies like me

Postby thetexan » Wed Jul 05, 2017 10:20 am

Yes, never draw the weapon unless you are prepared to used it...even as a threat against force as per 9.04. And even then the very last thing one does before firing is to put the finger on the trigger. At all other times...and I mean ALL OTHER TIMES....the finger is indexed against the side of the frame away from the trigger.

But what I have learned from teaching countless numbers of students is that most are frightfully improficient at using the gun if and when it is necessary to use it. And most don't even understand why this is. This is something I teach in tactical training classes.

There are several parts to the concept of having a "effectively usable" firearm when it becomes necessary to use it. Having a round in the chamber is only one of these parts and, ironically, the last on the list of these parts. If you are not proficient with the other skills you will fail with the gun long before you get to the part where having a round in the chamber makes a difference.

Let's take concealed carry with a gun in a belt holster for example. Here is a list of skills you must master to use the weapon effectively...

1. Making a "space" and "time" determination. Do you have adaquate space between you and the attacker and do you have the time to use the gun.
2. Getting your shirt out of the way so that you can get to the gun
3. Getting your shooting hand from where ever it happens to be at the time of the realization you are being attacked to the vicinity of the gun
4. Placing your drawing hand perfectly onto the gun in preparation for extraction
5. Extracting the gun smoothly while keeping your trigger finger off the trigger
6. Going from the extract position to a position where is the gun is in the quickest, most usable position for firing with the most economy of movement and time
7. Selecting from one of several ultimate firing positions based on what the immediate scenario calls upon.
8. NOW IT MATTERS IF THERE IS A ROUND IN THE CHAMBER!!!

If you are a woman...

3. Getting you gun out of your purse quickly without killing yourself in the process.

All of these tasks must be performed skillfully and proficiently when needed or else that LTC license you are so proud may be giving you a false sense of security. In fact, most times, someone who is dreadful at these skills may be better off just leaving the gun alone because you will just make the attacker madder by insulting his intelligence by trying to convince him you are a threat. He may, in fact, just take your gun that you are struggling to grab and use it on you!!

That is why I tell all of my students that the most import piece of equipment you can own is a blue gun that is a replica of your carry gun. Each of the above skills need to be rehearsed a thousand times, individually, and together, until you are an actual competent, proficient defensive threat with your weapon. And the great thing about the blue gun is that this can be practiced at home, over and over, and over and over and over....and did I mention....and over again!

THEN, and only then, will it matter if there is round in the chamber. Otherwise you might very well be more dangerous to yourself and others with a live gun you are not really able to safely use.

The thing that worries me the most about teaching people about LTC is the fact that so many of them get the license and stop learning at that point. They rarely practice....anything....even shooting. When they practice shooting they shoot one shot at a time rather than the more realistic two or three round bursts that will occur during an attack. They tend to leave class and not continue their academic learning also. Just because you have a right to carry a gun doesn't mean you should carry a gun irresponsibly or incompetently or improficiently.

tex
Texas LTC Instructor, NRA Pistol Instructor, CFI, CFII, MEI Instructor Pilot

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parabelum
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Re: One in the pipe for newbies like me

Postby parabelum » Wed Jul 05, 2017 12:20 pm

thetexan wrote:Yes, never draw the weapon unless you are prepared to used it...even as a threat against force as per 9.04. And even then the very last thing one does before firing is to put the finger on the trigger. At all other times...and I mean ALL OTHER TIMES....the finger is indexed against the side of the frame away from the trigger.

But what I have learned from teaching countless numbers of students is that most are frightfully improficient at using the gun if and when it is necessary to use it. And most don't even understand why this is. This is something I teach in tactical training classes.

There are several parts to the concept of having a "effectively usable" firearm when it becomes necessary to use it. Having a round in the chamber is only one of these parts and, ironically, the last on the list of these parts. If you are not proficient with the other skills you will fail with the gun long before you get to the part where having a round in the chamber makes a difference.

Let's take concealed carry with a gun in a belt holster for example. Here is a list of skills you must master to use the weapon effectively...

1. Making a "space" and "time" determination. Do you have adaquate space between you and the attacker and do you have the time to use the gun.
2. Getting your shirt out of the way so that you can get to the gun
3. Getting your shooting hand from where ever it happens to be at the time of the realization you are being attacked to the vicinity of the gun
4. Placing your drawing hand perfectly onto the gun in preparation for extraction
5. Extracting the gun smoothly while keeping your trigger finger off the trigger
6. Going from the extract position to a position where is the gun is in the quickest, most usable position for firing with the most economy of movement and time
7. Selecting from one of several ultimate firing positions based on what the immediate scenario calls upon.
8. NOW IT MATTERS IF THERE IS A ROUND IN THE CHAMBER!!!

If you are a woman...

3. Getting you gun out of your purse quickly without killing yourself in the process.


All of these tasks must be performed skillfully and proficiently when needed or else that LTC license you are so proud of is giving you a false sense of security. In fact, most times, someone who is dreadful at these skills may be better off just leaving the gun alone because you will just make the attacker madder by insulting his intelligence by trying to convince him you are a threat. He may, in fact, just take your gun that you are struggling to grab and use it on you!!

That is why I tell all of my students that the most import piece of equipment you can own is a blue gun that is a replica of your carry gun. Each of the above skills need to be rehearsed a thousand times, individually, and together, until you are an actual competent, proficient defensive threat with your weapon. And the great thing about the blue gun is that this can be practiced at home, over and over, and over and over and over....and did I mention....and over again!

THEN, and only then, will it matter if there is round in the chamber. Otherwise you might very well be more dangerous to yourself and others with a live gun you are not really able to safely use.

tex


My wife is more proficient with her Glock 43 then many guys I've seen, but alas...

My opinion is that folks tend to overthink scenarios. Makes for great class discussion though. Statistically, there are infinite number of permutations and variables that go into play with a self defense scenario. Train and be proficient with your gun. Always carry piped.
Think, but don't overthink.

"To think too much is a disease."
Fyodor Dostoyevsky
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thetexan
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Re: One in the pipe for newbies like me

Postby thetexan » Wed Jul 05, 2017 1:30 pm

Oh I agree. One can overthink all of this.

HOWEVER....

We seem to bounce between two extremes. Either LTCers overthink the scenario or they do little or no training. You can never over train, in my opinion but there is a minimum level of competency needed. But you can not NOT train and expect that you will be skillfully equipped to meet most defense situations.

And its my experience that most do not train...at all!

tex
Texas LTC Instructor, NRA Pistol Instructor, CFI, CFII, MEI Instructor Pilot

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oljames3
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Re: One in the pipe for newbies like me

Postby oljames3 » Wed Jul 05, 2017 3:07 pm

thetexan wrote:Oh I agree. One can overthink all of this.

HOWEVER....

We seem to bounce between two extremes. Either LTCers overthink the scenario or they do little or no training. You can never over train, in my opinion but there is a minimum level of competency needed. But you can not NOT train and expect that you will be skillfully equipped to meet most defense situations.

And its my experience that most do not train...at all!

tex

Minimum Competency. 2 links. John Daub, trainer at KRTraining.
https://blog.hsoi.com/2013/07/11/minimum-competency-for-defensive-pistol/
https://blog.hsoi.com/2014/03/15/minimum-competency-for-defensive-pistol-revisited/
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Re: One in the pipe for newbies like me

Postby Liberty » Wed Jul 05, 2017 3:09 pm

Training is good, more training is better. All the same we can't discount the fact that there are over a million LTC holders in Texas, many, if not most of us have not received any outside formal training. There are incidences reported in the media where an LTC holder has had positive results and very few where the LTC reactions had a negative result. Our record is pretty good.

Practice and range work should be encouraged by all. I believe that every LTC holder should log on to this Forum. It is a great way to learn the nuances of the law, where to get more training, and on the equipment and carry methods.

Most LTC holders and the newer ones in particular could use some practical training, but we aren't interested in becoming SEAL trained operators.

Some basic things I have found useful in training are:

Drawing: safely and the slow is smooth and smooth is fast lessons.
Carry options: like different guns holsters ammo etc.
Practical Deadly force law.(Thanks Mr. Cotton)
Moving target.

Basic things I've learned here are:
OODA loop
Awareness and Red yellow and white
Safety concerns of various carries.
Lessons learned from others mistakes.
Changes in the law as it effects legal self defense.

The fact is that so much training is expensive, far away and time consuming that it loses priority to many folks. Many ranges discourage drawing from a holster and rapid fire.
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