Shotguns for the Ladies in my life.

Issues important to the ladies, with men and women welcome.

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Liberty
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Shotguns for the Ladies in my life.

Postby Liberty » Sat Aug 22, 2009 9:09 am

My Wife and my sister in-law both decided that they each need shotguns for home defense and expect me to pick one up for them and teach them how to use it. I never particurly liked shotguns much us rifles and handguns, but if my wife and her sister want one they are gonna get them.

Whats a good caliber for them? Full or open choke? automatic or pump?
Should they be kept loaded with one in the chamber? Any thoughts on taking the girls out and familiarizing them with it?
My wife is familiar and proficient with semi handgun, I don't believe my SIL has ever handled a loaded gun.
My thinking is semi auto 16 guage? I don't want my ladies to get beaten up to badly. I will never get them to the range a lot to practice.
Tips hints suggestions?
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Re: Shotguns for the Ladies in my life.

Postby Crossfire » Sat Aug 22, 2009 9:54 am

I would not count on them not liking the shotgun. I thought I wouldn't like it either but, once I got started, there was no stopping. Breaking clays with a shotgun is a LOT more fun than shooting paper with a pistol.

So, my suggestion is to get them a good all around shotgun. Go with a 20 guage. 16 is more expensive to feed. Tristar is a good choice. Designed by women for women, lower end on the price scale, and readily available at Academy. My main gun is a Benelli, but I am taller than the average woman, so it fits me fine. You will probably get lots of opinions on everybody's favorites, so just take it all for what it's worth.
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Re: Shotguns for the Ladies in my life.

Postby TheArmedFarmer » Sat Aug 22, 2009 9:57 am

Couple thoughts here from our own observations:

My wife is very small, and is a real "wimp" (her word) when it comes to rifles and shotguns. Recoil bothers her a great deal and she makes a lot of complaints at the idea of shooting a shotgun. Like the women in your life, though, she sees the need for a good shotgun for home defense, and decided some time ago that she would familiarize herself with our guns.

We have a .410 shotgun that she has no trouble with at all, but even with #4 shot I'm just not confident in that shotgun against a goblin.

Our 12 gauge shotguns are actually quite do-able for practicing with birdshot (#8). She can handle those just fine and has fun with them. When practice is over, I can then load it up with #4 or 000 buck and it's ready for goblin hunting. This way, she's familiar with the guns thanks to practicing with lighter loads. If a felon is in the house one night and she has to shoot, she expects the adrenalin to be strong enough that she won't even notice the larger loads.

If you have access to a 12 gauge, I'd suggest you let them try it out with birdshot and see what they think. Just don't use birdshot against bad guys - it'll just make them angry!!

(I just read Crossfire's post. I'll look into a 20 gauge per her recommendation!)
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Re: Shotguns for the Ladies in my life.

Postby USA1 » Sat Aug 22, 2009 10:00 am

personally , for home defense , i like a 12 gauge pump action.

i don't keep one in the chamber. i save that for the intruder to hear . :shock:

sometimes the very distinctive sound of pumping a shotgun
can make someone think twice about what they are going to do .

but that's just me ;-)
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Re: Shotguns for the Ladies in my life.

Postby seamusTX » Sat Aug 22, 2009 10:34 am

As usual, you have to define a mission profile and set a budget.

Shotguns are excellent defensive weapons (no "IMHO" in this case). The are devastating. They are also intimidating to the attacker before a shot is fired.

As Crossfire said, 16-gauge ammo is expensive and the guns themselves are somewhat scarce. The shooters will need to fire at least a couple of hundred rounds to become comfortable and proficient. All shot shells except for 12- and 20-gauge bird shot are above $10 per 25 now. Some buck is about $1 a round.

They won't know how they handle recoil until they try. Handling recoil is more about technique than weight or strength. Google up some photos of women shotgun champions. Some are petite teenage girls.

Then there's the question of magazine capacity. Standard pumps have a four-round magazine. You can get "tactical" versions that have a seven-round magazine and cost more. Remington has 12- and 20-gauge Express Magnum models that are about $250 at Academy now. The tactical version is about $350.

Personally, I have trouble imagining a scenario outside of combat where attackers keep coming in the face of five rounds of buckshot. The criminals here tend to be pretty mopey and unambitious.

IMHO, pump versus semi-auto is not that significant a question. With practice, someone can fire five aimed rounds in as many seconds from a pump. Semi-autos start around $500.

Chokes are not much of an issue for home defense. The shot is going to disperse about one inch diameter per yard of travel. At typical indoor distances, the pattern will be only a few inches in diameter.

Most off-the-shelf shotguns come with a modified choke. You can buy others for about $20.

Then there's the question of where to practice. The Galveston range is still closed. Texas City won't let you do tactical shotgun shooting. I don't know how that kind of thing is handled at PSC.

The good news, however, is that Tom Estep is an excellent shotgun instructor and good with the ladies. He also has a large collection of shotguns, so they could try some of his before they buy. They might have to start shooting skeet, but there's nothing wrong with that.

P.S.: There's a bunch of shotguns on Auction Arms right now for as low as $80. I expect they're pretty beat-up at that price, but you're not trying to show off at a trap championship.

- Jim
Last edited by seamusTX on Sat Aug 22, 2009 10:49 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Shotguns for the Ladies in my life.

Postby Liberty » Sat Aug 22, 2009 10:37 am

Crossfire wrote:I would not count on them not liking the shotgun. I thought I wouldn't like it either but, once I got started, there was no stopping. Breaking clays with a shotgun is a LOT more fun than shooting paper with a pistol.

So, my suggestion is to get them a good all around shotgun. Go with a 20 guage. 16 is more expensive to feed. Tristar is a good choice. Designed by women for women, lower end on the price scale, and readily available at Academy. My main gun is a Benelli, but I am taller than the average woman, so it fits me fine. You will probably get lots of opinions on everybody's favorites, so just take it all for what it's worth.

My sister in law isn't much for the outdoors. but my wife might get into it. For now I just want to find them a gun that won't intimidate them and beat them up too bad.
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Re: Shotguns for the Ladies in my life.

Postby Liberty » Sat Aug 22, 2009 11:07 am

seamusTX wrote:As usual, you have to define a mission profile and set a budget.

Shotguns are excellent defensive weapons (no "IMHO" in this case). The are devastating. They are also intimidating to the attacker before a shot is fired.

As Crossfire said, 16-gauge ammo is expensive and the guns themselves are somewhat scarce. The shooters will need to fire at least a couple of hundred rounds to become comfortable and proficient. All shot shells except for 12- and 20-gauge bird shot are above $10 per 25 now. Some buck is about $1 a round.

They won't know how they handle recoil until they try. Handling recoil is more about technique than weight or strength. Google up some photos of women shotgun champions. Some are petite teenage girls.

Then there's the question of magazine capacity. Standard pumps have a four-round magazine. You can get "tactical" versions that have a seven-round magazine and cost more. Remington has 12- and 20-gauge Express Magnum models that are about $250 at Academy now. The tactical version is about $350.

Personally, I have trouble imagining a scenario outside of combat where attackers keep coming in the face of five rounds of buckshot. The criminals here tend to be pretty mopey and unambitious.

IMHO, pump versus semi-auto is not that significant a question. With practice, someone can fire five aimed rounds in as many seconds from a pump. Semi-autos start around $500.

Chokes are not much of an issue for home defense. The shot is going to disperse about one inch diameter per yard of travel. At typical indoor distances, the pattern will be only a few inches in diameter.

Most off-the-shelf shotguns come with a modified choke. You can buy others for about $20.

Then there's the question of where to practice. The Galveston range is still closed. Texas City won't let you do tactical shotgun shooting. I don't know how that kind of thing is handled at PSC.

The good news, however, is that Tom Estep is an excellent shotgun instructor and good with the ladies. He also has a large collection of shotguns, so they could try some of his before they buy. They might have to start shooting skeet, but there's nothing wrong with that.

- Jim

With auto/pump issues. I wasn't so concerned about getting lots of rounds off quickly but rather more about ease of use. These are middle aged ladys with not a lot of hand strength. I didn't realize that 16 gauge was so much more than 12 or 20, Back in my day 16 and 12 were the most popular. Will Texas City allow one to shoot Shotgun at paper from the rifle range? Right now I'm more interested in getting them into safe handling practices than real proficiency. A visit with ole Tom is defiantly on the Horizon at some point. Maybe earlier than later will be a good Idea.

I can't understand why it is illegal to shoot off the seawall into the Gulf? :reddevil
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Re: Shotguns for the Ladies in my life.

Postby WildBill » Sat Aug 22, 2009 11:11 am

At PSC there is one range that you can use paper targets for self defense practice with a shotgun. :tiphat:
12 Gauges can beat you up pretty bad. Autos are alot easier on the shoulder, but I don't think that would be as good for self defense.
Last edited by WildBill on Sat Aug 22, 2009 11:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Shotguns for the Ladies in my life.

Postby seamusTX » Sat Aug 22, 2009 11:15 am

Liberty wrote:Will Texas City allow one to shoot Shotgun at paper from the rifle range?

They told me only slugs, and you don't want to start with slugs. Maybe since you're a regular there they would make an exception. You would have to bring your own target holder, because at 25 yards it's going to be pulverized.
I can't understand why it is illegal to shoot off the seawall into the Gulf? :reddevil

Because our city fathers and mothers are a bunch of wimps.

I was talking to a guy in the Galveston Rifle and Pistol Club. Thirty or forty years ago, people used to shoot in the East End flats. It wasn't in the city then, and nobody minded if the shooters weren't idiots.

Do you know anyone who lives in an unincorporated area that you could cash in a favor with? That's what I did with my wife.

- Jim

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Re: Shotguns for the Ladies in my life.

Postby mikeintexas » Sat Aug 22, 2009 11:34 am

For the price, Remington has Youth Model 20ga. in an 870 pump and 11-87 semi auto. My wife has one of each. We ended up with the 11-87 because her arms are short and she had a tough time reaching the forend on the 870. The 11-87 has the forend the extends to the receiver.

I think we paid around $200 for the 870 (several years ago) and between $300 and $400 for the 11-87 a couple of years ago.

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Re: Shotguns for the Ladies in my life.

Postby Liberty » Sat Aug 22, 2009 11:35 am

seamusTX wrote:
Liberty wrote:Will Texas City allow one to shoot Shotgun at paper from the rifle range?

They told me only slugs, and you don't want to start with slugs. Maybe since you're a regular there they would make an exception. You would have to bring your own target holder, because at 25 yards it's going to be pulverized.
I can't understand why it is illegal to shoot off the seawall into the Gulf? :reddevil

Because our city fathers and mothers are a bunch of wimps.

I was talking to a guy in the Galveston Rifle and Pistol Club. Thirty or forty years ago, people used to shoot in the East End flats. It wasn't in the city then, and nobody minded if the shooters weren't idiots.

Do you know anyone who lives in an unincorporated area that you could cash in a favor with? That's what I did with my wife.

- Jim

I'm thinking it might be legal in the unincorporated beach areas (public land) just over the bridge in Brazoria County. If it is legal I suspect the Brazoria County Sheriffs Dept, might frown on it though.
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Re: Shotguns for the Ladies in my life.

Postby dicion » Sat Aug 22, 2009 11:44 am

My Wife has no problems with my 1100 12Ga.
It's a Semi Auto, which absorbs a decent amount of the recoil.
http://dicion.net/chlforum/new%20015.JPG

Plus, they won't have to worry about pumping it after every shot. Just keep pulling the trigger until the BG stops moving... err, I mean, Stops being a threat. :thumbs2:



Edited to include link to pic:
Last edited by dicion on Sat Aug 22, 2009 11:57 am, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: Shotguns for the Ladies in my life.

Postby Jacob Staff » Sat Aug 22, 2009 11:53 am

I'm putting together a HD shotgun. I have a 870 12ga that I am not using and found an 18.5" barrel for $40. I am thinking about putting a Knoxx adjustable length/recoil reducing stock on it. If that works out well, I will add a light. Maybe a Surefire foregrip. The price adds up quickly but if it works, I should be worth it.

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?p ... aign=10636
http://www.surefire.com/Remington870
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Re: Shotguns for the Ladies in my life.

Postby seamusTX » Sat Aug 22, 2009 12:37 pm

Liberty wrote:I'm thinking it might be legal in the unincorporated beach areas (public land) just over the bridge in Brazoria County.

They might cite you for poaching, even if you weren't actually shooting at birds. I don't know hunting regulations at all.

Also, that area is pretty built-up. Most counties ban shooting within a certain distance of a residence, usually at least 100 yards.

I don't know of any place where you can legally shoot without being investigated, other than private property.

- Jim

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Re: Shotguns for the Ladies in my life.

Postby Liberty » Sat Aug 22, 2009 1:13 pm

seamusTX wrote:
Liberty wrote:I'm thinking it might be legal in the unincorporated beach areas (public land) just over the bridge in Brazoria County.

They might cite you for poaching, even if you weren't actually shooting at birds. I don't know hunting regulations at all.

Also, that area is pretty built-up. Most counties ban shooting within a certain distance of a residence, usually at least 100 yards.

I don't know of any place where you can legally shoot without being investigated, other than private property.

- Jim

There are stretches 1/2 mile or a mile from any residences. I'm not brave enough to try it. not yet, I have to think this one out for a while maybe float the idea in one of the other sub forums.
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