Teaching Hospital, what is it, how do we know at the front door?

[E.Marquez]

This is a continued pet peeve of mine, and from what i have read here and other forums an issue with others as well.
2 questions many theories have been posted about, but few supported answers.
The current law states Hospitals are not statuary off limits, that they must post 30.06 to be restricted. This is not in contention with those versed in current law.
Current law states weapons are prohibited from the physical premises of a school or educational institution, any grounds or building on which an activity sponsored by a school or educational institution is being conducted, or a passenger transportation vehicle of a school or educational institution, whether the school or educational institution is public or private, unless pursuant to written regulations or written authorization of the institution. This is not in contention with those versed in current law.

What is in contention is, what, how is a Teaching Hospital defined by the law, making one statuary off limits? And second, how is the common licensed hand gun carrier to know the hospital front door they stand in front of is forbidden to pass through.
If posted, simple.. If not posted is this one of the often mentioned "Teaching Hospitals" ?? How would one know?
Is it a defence to prosecution when you are found inside a non posted hospital with a concealed handgun and the security guard then claims you have broken the law, because "they" say it is a "Teaching Hospitals" and the DA agrees? For the sake of argument, lest say it turns out said hospital is owned by a university, the chairman is a professor and licensed in Texas as an education provider, and the hospital really is a "Teaching Hospitals" Ok I was worng.. HOW was I to know all that standing at the door yesterday as I arrived to visit a friend?
As there are no published criteria to make it clear what a "Teaching Hospitals" one cannot really argue, it is the LTC owners fault for not just "looking it up" or researching.. as there is no list of "Teaching Hospitals" (that I know of) now a clear set of checklist items obtainable by the common man with a smart phone standing at the hospital door that defines "Teaching Hospitals"

If my assumptions and beliefs are worng, please someone point me to the State approved list of "Teaching Hospitals"
Or the defined set of rules observable without special access or knowledge that define what a "Teaching Hospital" is?
Again, lots of opinions for the subject and I appreciate that, but none that count (DA, Judge, AG, Senate committee , ect) that I know of?

[Charles L. Cotton]

Remember, schools are off-limits, hospital displaying 30.06 signs are off-limits. "Teaching hospitals" are not off-limits per TPC §46.03 or §46.035. Hospitals that are owned by colleges like M.D. Anderson and UTMB are colleges, but not "schools."

Chas.

[C-dub]

It gets really tricky when you start talking about hospitals like Parkland Hospital in Dallas. A county hospital affiliated with a medical school university.

[n5wd]

The only university hospital that I have any experience with is the M.D.Anderson Cancer Center in Houston, which is part of the University of Texas system. It is well marked with (when I was there with my wife, Pamela, who was being treated there) 30.06 signs at all entrances that I ever entered/left from. In addition, all of the wheelchairs were marked as "Property of University of Texas", the police all wore UT patches, and there were numerous signs and markings making it clear that this was UT property. In this case, I don't think anyone would be unaware. Of course, other locations may be different.

[brhalltx]

Baylor is a mixed bag; the main clinical building isn't posted, but a "professional" building is...

[E.Marquez]

Baylor is a mixed bag; the main clinical building isn't posted, but a "professional" building is...

My issue is not with those that post 30.06(well I take issue with that, but that's a different thread)
It is the Hospital that is not posted .. is it statutorily off limits? How do I know?

[E.Marquez]

Remember, schools are off-limits, hospital displaying 30.06 signs are off-limits. "Teaching hospitals" are not off-limits per TPC §46.03 or §46.035. Hospitals that are owned by colleges like M.D. Anderson and UTMB are colleges, but not "schools."

Chas.

Chas, are you saying a Hospital, no matter its affiliation, role, partnership or ownership is considered a school? And thus no hospital falls under TPC §46.03 or §46.035? While perhaps not defined as a school some seem to be defined as a educational institution.. which is still off limits... I think, maybe, perhaps.....

46.03 says in part
"(1) on the physical premises of a school or educational institution, any grounds or building on which an activity sponsored by a school or educational institution is being conducted, or a passenger transportation vehicle of a school or educational institution, whether the school or educational institution is public or private, unless pursuant to written regulations or written authorization of the institution;"
And then later "(c) In this section:
(1) "Institution of higher education" and "private or independent institution of higher education" have the meanings assigned by Section 61.003, Education Code."

61.003 states
Sec. 61.003. DEFINITIONS. In this chapter:
(1) "Board" means the Texas Higher Education Coordinating Board.
(2) "Public junior college" means any junior college certified by the board in accordance with Section 61.063 of this chapter.
(3) "General academic teaching institution" means The University of Texas at Austin; The University of Texas at El Paso; The University of Texas of the Permian Basin; The University of Texas at Dallas; The University of Texas at San Antonio; Texas A&M University, Main University; The University of Texas at Arlington; Tarleton State University; Prairie View A&M University; Texas Maritime Academy; Texas Tech University; University of North Texas; Lamar University; Lamar State College--Orange; Lamar State College--Port Arthur; Texas A&M University--Kingsville; Texas A&M University--Corpus Christi; Texas Woman's University; Texas Southern University; Midwestern State University; University of Houston; University of Texas--Pan American; The University of Texas at Brownsville; Texas A&M University--Commerce; Sam Houston State University; Texas State University; West Texas A&M University; Stephen F. Austin State University; Sul Ross State University; Angelo State University; The University of Texas at Tyler; and any other college, university, or institution so classified as provided in this chapter or created and so classified, expressly or impliedly, by law.
(4) "Public senior college or university" means a general academic teaching institution as defined above.
(5) "Medical and dental unit" means The Texas A&M University System Health Science Center and its component institutions, agencies, and programs; the Texas Tech University Health Sciences Center; the Texas Tech University Health Sciences Center at El Paso; The University of Texas Medical Branch at Galveston; The University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center; The University of Texas Medical School at San Antonio; The University of Texas Dental Branch at Houston; The University of Texas M. D. Anderson Cancer Center; The University of Texas Graduate School of Biomedical Sciences at Houston; The University of Texas Dental School at San Antonio; The University of Texas Medical School at Houston; The University of Texas Health Science Center--South Texas and its component institutions, if established under Subchapter N, Chapter 74; the nursing institutions of The Texas A&M University System and The University of Texas System; and The University of Texas School of Public Health at Houston; and such other medical or dental schools as may be established by statute or as provided in this chapter.
(6) "Other agency of higher education" means The University of Texas System, System Administration; Texas Western University Museum; Texas A&M University System, Administrative and General Offices; Texas Agricultural Experiment Station; Texas Agricultural Extension Service; Rodent and Predatory Animal Control Service (a part of the Texas Agricultural Extension Service); Texas Engineering Experiment Station (including the Texas Transportation Institute); Texas Engineering Extension Service; Texas Forest Service; Texas Tech University Museum; Texas State University System, System Administration; Sam Houston Memorial Museum; Panhandle-Plains Historical Museum; Cotton Research Committee of Texas; Water Resources Institute of Texas; Texas Veterinary Medical Diagnostic Laboratory; and any other unit, division, institution, or agency which shall be so designated by statute or which may be established to operate as a component part of any public senior college or university, or which may be so classified as provided in this chapter.
(7) "Public technical institute" means the Lamar Institute of Technology or the Texas State Technical College System.
(8) "Institution of higher education" means any public technical institute, public junior college, public senior college or university, medical or dental unit, public state college, or other agency of higher education as defined in this section.

All of which to the laymen seems to imply some hospitals would be by there attachment to, ownership of, education core role, statutorily off limits..

Im sure this is all very clear to a lawyer with your vast experience and specific field of expertise in Texas firearms law..But it is much less so to the common LTC holder.

[Charles L. Cotton]

Remember, schools are off-limits, hospital displaying 30.06 signs are off-limits. "Teaching hospitals" are not off-limits per TPC §46.03 or §46.035. Hospitals that are owned by colleges like M.D. Anderson and UTMB are colleges, but not "schools."

Chas.

Chas, are you saying a Hospital, no matter its affiliation, role, partnership or ownership is considered a school? And thus no hospital falls under TPC §46.03 or §46.035? While perhaps not defined as a school some seem to be defined as a educational institution.. which is still off limits... I think, maybe, perhaps.....

46.03 says in part
"(1) on the physical premises of a school or educational institution, any grounds or building on which an activity sponsored by a school or educational institution is being conducted, or a passenger transportation vehicle of a school or educational institution, whether the school or educational institution is public or private, unless pursuant to written regulations or written authorization of the institution;"
And then later "(c) In this section:
(1) "Institution of higher education" and "private or independent institution of higher education" have the meanings assigned by Section 61.003, Education Code."

61.003 states
Sec. 61.003. DEFINITIONS. In this chapter:
(1) "Board" means the Texas Higher Education Coordinating Board.
(2) "Public junior college" means any junior college certified by the board in accordance with Section 61.063 of this chapter.
(3) "General academic teaching institution" means The University of Texas at Austin; The University of Texas at El Paso; The University of Texas of the Permian Basin; The University of Texas at Dallas; The University of Texas at San Antonio; Texas A&M University, Main University; The University of Texas at Arlington; Tarleton State University; Prairie View A&M University; Texas Maritime Academy; Texas Tech University; University of North Texas; Lamar University; Lamar State College--Orange; Lamar State College--Port Arthur; Texas A&M University--Kingsville; Texas A&M University--Corpus Christi; Texas Woman's University; Texas Southern University; Midwestern State University; University of Houston; University of Texas--Pan American; The University of Texas at Brownsville; Texas A&M University--Commerce; Sam Houston State University; Texas State University; West Texas A&M University; Stephen F. Austin State University; Sul Ross State University; Angelo State University; The University of Texas at Tyler; and any other college, university, or institution so classified as provided in this chapter or created and so classified, expressly or impliedly, by law.
(4) "Public senior college or university" means a general academic teaching institution as defined above.
(5) "Medical and dental unit" means The Texas A&M University System Health Science Center and its component institutions, agencies, and programs; the Texas Tech University Health Sciences Center; the Texas Tech University Health Sciences Center at El Paso; The University of Texas Medical Branch at Galveston; The University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center; The University of Texas Medical School at San Antonio; The University of Texas Dental Branch at Houston; The University of Texas M. D. Anderson Cancer Center; The University of Texas Graduate School of Biomedical Sciences at Houston; The University of Texas Dental School at San Antonio; The University of Texas Medical School at Houston; The University of Texas Health Science Center--South Texas and its component institutions, if established under Subchapter N, Chapter 74; the nursing institutions of The Texas A&M University System and The University of Texas System; and The University of Texas School of Public Health at Houston; and such other medical or dental schools as may be established by statute or as provided in this chapter.
(6) "Other agency of higher education" means The University of Texas System, System Administration; Texas Western University Museum; Texas A&M University System, Administrative and General Offices; Texas Agricultural Experiment Station; Texas Agricultural Extension Service; Rodent and Predatory Animal Control Service (a part of the Texas Agricultural Extension Service); Texas Engineering Experiment Station (including the Texas Transportation Institute); Texas Engineering Extension Service; Texas Forest Service; Texas Tech University Museum; Texas State University System, System Administration; Sam Houston Memorial Museum; Panhandle-Plains Historical Museum; Cotton Research Committee of Texas; Water Resources Institute of Texas; Texas Veterinary Medical Diagnostic Laboratory; and any other unit, division, institution, or agency which shall be so designated by statute or which may be established to operate as a component part of any public senior college or university, or which may be so classified as provided in this chapter.
(7) "Public technical institute" means the Lamar Institute of Technology or the Texas State Technical College System.
(8) "Institution of higher education" means any public technical institute, public junior college, public senior college or university, medical or dental unit, public state college, or other agency of higher education as defined in this section.

All of which to the laymen seems to imply some hospitals would be by there attachment to, ownership of, education core role, statutorily off limits..

Im sure this is all very clear to a lawyer with your vast experience and specific field of expertise in Texas firearms law..But it is much less so to the common LTC holder.

No, I'm saying hospitals are off-limits only if they post a 30.06 sign. School "premises," but not colleges as of 8/1/16, are off-limits without any signs. "Teaching hospital" is not a legal status nor is it defined in Chp. 46 of the Penal Code. If a hospital is owned by a school, then I take the safe approach and assume it to be a college for purposes of carrying handguns.

Chas.

[winters]

Teaching hospitals doesn't mean they are a "school" like your kids high school. They just have nurses doing clinicals and doctors doing residency. Teaching hospitals are no more a school than someone doing home schooling out of there house. Have you ever sat with a coworker at work and they taught you how they do their job? well that doesn't make them a school.

[Keith B]

Teaching hospitals doesn't mean they are a "school" like your kids high school. They just have nurses doing clinicals and doctors doing residency. Teaching hospitals are no more a school than someone doing home schooling out of there house. Have you ever sat with a coworker at work and they taught you how they do their job? well that doesn't make them a school.

Unless you're a teacher, teaching another teacher, at a school.

[oljames3]

... no more a school than someone doing home schooling out of there house. ...

I would not want to be the test case for this one. I do not go into my ex-wife's house when I pick up the children.

See:
Leeper v Arlington ISD http://thsc.org/wp-content/uploads/2012 ... ourt88.pdf
No. 2-87-216-CV COURT OF APPEALS, SECOND COURT OF APPEALS DISTRICT OF TEXAS, FORT WORTH http://thsc.org/wp-content/uploads/2012 ... Appeal.pdf
TEA et al v Leeper et al http://thsc.org/wp-content/uploads/2012 ... _Court.pdf

[bortaz]

That said, here is a list of teaching hospitals in Texas. It is however, not exhaustive. Valley Baptist in Harlingen and Renaissance (recently tabbed as a teaching hospital in connection with the new UT-RGV medical school) in Edinburg is missing

Yep, we've got a cohort of about 20 residents in the first group at Doctors Hospital at Renaissance.