CHL Denial

[chrisd1124]

New to the form looking some answers to my recent CHL denial. In May 2014 I was arrested for a DWI and was placed on a "Pretrial Diversion" program. This is virtually the same as differed adjudication but I did not plea to any conviction. I was placed a probation for 9 months and successfully completed the program and my case was dismissed. My probation ended October 31st 2015 and I applied for you my CHL on November 17 assuming that I my record was clear and my case was dismissed. Between Nov 17 and Jan 14 (denial) my case was still "pending" within the system. I did not receive my dismissal letter from the court until Jan 21st after my detail letter. Would this be subject to an appeal? If not, would I be able to pursue a FL license?

[SewTexas]

INAL and I'm just going by what I've picked up here, DWI is a class B misdemeanor, deferred adjudication is the same as guilty. I'm guessing this is a case of "you're going to have to wait 5 years"

[chrisd1124]

From my understanding "Pretrial Diversion" is an agreement reached with the DA that if all requirements are met then the case will be dismissed and no convictions is made. I believe the main difference between this and differed adjudication is that you plea guilty or no contest. In my case, I did not have to plea guilty or no contest to the DWI but simply complete the program ordered by the court and the cased has been dismissed from court. The case was not officially dismissed until 1/21/16, but the program was completed on 10/31/15.

[SewTexas]

someone with a bit more knowledge is going to have to weigh in here. Probably tomorrow. I'm assuming you sent in all of the paperwork with your app showing that you did everything and it was dismissed, right?

[casp625]

Texas has deferred prosecution, which is different than deferred adjudication. Your disposition paperwork will determine that.

[AJSully421]

What does your paperwork say?

The words "pretrial" and "diversion" do not appear in Title 1, Chapter 42 of the TX Code of Criminal Procedure. As an aside, neither does the phrase "Deferred Prosecution"... because let me tell you, you are getting the stuffing prosecuted out of you! It is the adjudication of guilt that is being deferred, hence, in Texas the phrase "Deferred Adjudication" appears 43 times in that section.

You used the word "Probation" is that what you had? Or was it more like the words "Deferred Adjudication" and "Community Supervision" that typically come in to play for first time DWI (Assuming it was your first).

When you were put on your, let's just call it probation, what does that document say?

Lastly, and most important, what does your final discharge document say? Something like you are discharged from probation or community supervision, and that the "charge / case is dismissed" or "Charge is dropped" or "Charge is vacated, set aside, nullified, mortified, fortified, horrified, glorified.........." or that you were allowed to withdraw your plea?

Details matter. Some words = CHL now, other words mean 5 years. You might be able to get it non-disclosed / vacated and not have to wait the full 5, you can petition for non-disclosure for a Sec 49 offense immediately.

Also, what did the CHL denial say? Simply that you were denied because of a misdemeanor conviction?

[WildBill]

Deferred Prosecution Agreements are different than both deferred adjudications, and deferred dispositions.
The latter two are covered by statute. Deferred Prosecution, however, is not.

http://blog.austindefense.com/2007/02/a ... tin-texas/

[WildBill]

New to the form looking some answers to my recent CHL denial. In May 2014 I was arrested for a DWI and was placed on a "Pretrial Diversion" program. This is virtually the same as differed adjudication but I did not plea to any conviction. I was placed a probation for 9 months and successfully completed the program and my case was dismissed. My probation ended October 31st 2015 and I applied for you my CHL on November 17 assuming that I my record was clear and my case was dismissed. Between Nov 17 and Jan 14 (denial) my case was still "pending" within the system. I did not receive my dismissal letter from the court until Jan 21st after my detail letter. Would this be subject to an appeal? If not, would I be able to pursue a FL license?

If you now have the letter, and within the time frame I would appeal. If it is too late you may have to reapply, but I am not certain. You may want to call or email DPS and ask for advice.

[chrisd1124]

What does your paperwork say?

The words "pretrial" and "diversion" do not appear in Title 1, Chapter 42 of the TX Code of Criminal Procedure. As an aside, neither does the phrase "Deferred Prosecution"... because let me tell you, you are getting the stuffing prosecuted out of you! It is the adjudication of guilt that is being deferred, hence, in Texas the phrase "Deferred Adjudication" appears 43 times in that section.

You used the word "Probation" is that what you had? Or was it more like the words "Deferred Adjudication" and "Community Supervision" that typically come in to play for first time DWI (Assuming it was your first).

When you were put on your, let's just call it probation, what does that document say?

Lastly, and most important, what does your final discharge document say? Something like you are discharged from probation or community supervision, and that the "charge / case is dismissed" or "Charge is dropped" or "Charge is vacated, set aside, nullified, mortified, fortified, horrified, glorified.........." or that you were allowed to withdraw your plea?

Details matter. Some words = CHL now, other words mean 5 years. You might be able to get it non-disclosed / vacated and not have to wait the full 5, you can petition for non-disclosure for a Sec 49 offense immediately.

Also, what did the CHL denial say? Simply that you were denied because of a misdemeanor conviction?

"The applicant for pretrial diversion need not admit his guilt. The County Attorney usually makes his decision as to whether to grant pretrial diversion before a case is filed against the defendant. Usually the pretrial diversion applicant must promise to not break any law more serious than a speeding ticket for 6 or 12 months. If he does, then the original case will be filed, but the County Attorney starts from square one"

I was not to break any laws other than minor traffic tickets for 9 months or they could convict me of the DWI. I completed this agreement with county/state and my dismissal paperwork states the motion to dismiss case # ****. I had confirmed this with my lawyer months back and this is not a conviction. I am no legal expert, but I do believe there is difference from being "charged" and "conviction."

I know that on Florida's application asks if you have been convicted with 2 or more DWI's. Would this be better option than going through a hearing and still have the possibility of being denied?

[SewTexas]

Now that I double check it in the light of morning, I think your biggest problem might actually be that you filed before you had your final dismissal paperwork. I think I got lost in the dates last night. Try the appeal.

[chrisd1124]

Now that I double check it in the light of morning, I think your biggest problem might actually be that you filed before you had your final dismissal paperwork. I think I got lost in the dates last night. Try the appeal.

That is what I was thinking because it was considered still pending in the system, but I do have paperwork stating it was completed on 10/31/15. It took the court almost 3 months to finish signing off on the dismissal paperwork which should have been done as soon as the program was completed. Now, say that this is not worth appealing should I apply for a Florida license? What are the pros and cons, if any, of a FL license compared to a Texas CHL?

[AJSully421]

Now that I double check it in the light of morning, I think your biggest problem might actually be that you filed before you had your final dismissal paperwork. I think I got lost in the dates last night. Try the appeal.

That is what I was thinking because it was considered still pending in the system, but I do have paperwork stating it was completed on 10/31/15. It took the court almost 3 months to finish signing off on the dismissal paperwork which should have been done as soon as the program was completed. Now, say that this is not worth appealing should I apply for a Florida license? What are the pros and cons, if any, of a FL license compared to a Texas CHL?

Texas CHL can be used as a replacement to a NICS check. (No big deal, you save 5 minutes) Then there is the whole GFZA argument that we all get in to. Funny thing is that no one can point to a single case where some guy was driving on a public street within 1,000 feet of a school with an out of state carry license and gets snagged because they were speeding, following too closely, or failed to signal and the cop found out that they had a gun and a license from a state other than the state they were in and they got tossed just for that.

The only other issue is that there was a story from someone, either here or another forum, where a guy with a license from another state got the third degree from a Texas officer because the officer was certain that the only reason that person had an out of state license is that they were not fully qualified for one in Texas. Again, not a real issue to be worried about.

In reality, best thing to do is to file an appeal, send a certified copy of your final disposition to the DPS, they are going to do what they are going to do. Worst case, they say "no" and you apply for a FL license.

[SewTexas]

Yep, what Sully said