LTC renewal, come on DPS.......!

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flintknapper
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LTC renewal, come on DPS.......!

Postby flintknapper » Wed Oct 18, 2017 10:02 am

My Daughter applied on-line for her renewal back on 07/31/2017.

All looked good, no additional requests for information or other issues.

My Daughter is an RN and a 'travel nurse'...so she doesn't have time to check the status of the renewal to see how it is progressing. So I told her I would do that. I waited 30 days, nothing in the mail (not unusual), no change in status on-line. Waited another 30 days, same thing, no license in the mail, no update of status online. Gave it another 10 days, still nothing.

Requested an update of status online. Got an email stating that the license had been printed and mailed out on 08/09/2017 (or roughly one week after the application had been submitted). So I call them this morning to report that we never received the license and asked what can be done at this juncture to get another mailed out.

The lady I spoke to was very 'curt' and sounded much annoyed about my inquiry. I asked her why if the license had been processed and mailed out that there was NEVER (and still isn't) an update of the renewal status. How would a person know they were waiting on something that isn't going to show up.

She replied, that she could not give me that information or discuss it with me. Said that my Daughter would need to call. I explained that I was her Father and was trying to help her with the renewal since she has so little time. The lady repeated she could not help me...that she would need to speak to my Daughter. I certainly understand protocol....but asked her when my daughter does call, how will she know it is her and not just a 'female voice'?

To which she quipped "I will ask her for her Birth-date and Drivers License number". I said to her "That's it"? She said yes.

I told her I had that information in front of me, as well as her Social Security number, phone number and anything else she might need.

The lady then informed me that she was NOT going to discuss it further and to have my daughter call. She would then see what the situation was and what could be done.

So IF the license had been mailed when they said it was (and presumably lost), then we have been waiting for over 60 days unaware that it had (allegedly) been processed because of NO update to the status. As a result, my daughter's (license now expired) has been out of State travel nursing....unable to carry her weapon.
Last edited by flintknapper on Mon Oct 23, 2017 5:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
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RPBrown
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Re: LTC renewal, come on DPS.......!

Postby RPBrown » Wed Oct 18, 2017 10:10 am

Have your wife call and act as your daughter :mrgreen:
Not that I would advocate anything illegal.
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twomillenium
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Re: LTC renewal, come on DPS.......!

Postby twomillenium » Wed Oct 18, 2017 10:16 am

flintknapper wrote:My Daughter applied on-line for her renewal back on 07/31/2017.

All looked good, no additional requests for information or other issues.

My Daughter is an RN and a 'travel nurse'...so she doesn't have time to check the status of the renewal to see how it is progressing. So I told her I would do that. I waited 30 days, nothing in the mail (not unusual), no change in status on-line. Waited another 30 days, same thing, no license in the mail, no update of status online. Gave it another 10 days, still nothing.

Requested an update of status online. Got an email stating that the license had been printed and mailed out on 08/09/2017 (or roughly one week after the application had been submitted). So I call them this morning to report that we never received the license and asked what can be done at this juncture to get another mailed out.

The lady I spoke to was very 'curt' and sounded much annoyed about my inquiry. I asked her why if the license had been processed and mailed out that there was NEVER (and still isn't) an update of the renewal status. How would a person know they were waiting on something that isn't going to show up.

She replied, that she could not give me that information or discuss it with me. Said that my Daughter would need to call. I explained that I was her Father and was trying to help her with the renewal since she has so little time. The lady repeated she could not help me...that she would need to speak to my Daughter. I certainly understand protocol....but asked her when my daughter does call, how will she know it is her and not just a 'female voice'?

To which she quipped "I will ask her for her Birth-date and Drivers License number". I said to her "That's it"? She said yes.

I told her I had that information in front of me, as well as her Social Security number, phone number and anything else she might need.

The lady then informed me that she was NOT going to discuss it further and to have my daughter call. She would then see what the situation was and what could be done.

So IF the license had been mailed when they said it was (and presumably lost), then we have been waiting for over 60 days unaware that it had (allegedly) been processed because of NO update to the status. As a result, my daughter (license now expired) has been out of State travel nursing....unable to carry her weapon.

Tell your daughter to call because:
GC §411.192. CONFIDENTIALITY OF RECORDS.
(a) The department shall disclose to a criminal justice agency information contained in its files and records regarding whether a named individual or any individual named in a specified list is licensed under this subchapter. Information on an individual subject to disclosure under this section includes the individual’s name, date of birth, gender, race, zip code, telephone number, e-mail address, and Internet website address. Except as otherwise provided by this section and by Section 411.193, all other records maintained under this subchapter are confidential and are not subject to mandatory disclosure under the open records law, Chapter 552.
Even applies to fathers!
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infoman
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Re: LTC renewal, come on DPS.......!

Postby infoman » Wed Oct 18, 2017 10:31 am

LTC is not an open records Dept, they are not allowed to give info to anyone other than the applicant themselves. In fact, they can be in trouble for doing so.


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Re: LTC renewal, come on DPS.......!

Postby rotor » Wed Oct 18, 2017 10:40 am

Your daughter really needs to be the one calling and I don't think a renewal takes even 3 weeks now. What I also suggest is for your daughter to sign up for a service USPS offers where they send you an email with a scanned image of all of your first class mail coming each day. So if you see something from DPS and it doesn't show in your mailbox you know the carrier has messed up. Of course once you find out that your mail has been lost or misdelivered they don't do anything to fix it. I usually leave a note in my mailbox asking the carrier what happened. At least you know that it is there or lost or was never sent. This is one of the better services the USPS has come out with. Doesn't help with the current problem but because of privacy your daughter will need to call.

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Re: LTC renewal, come on DPS.......!

Postby flintknapper » Wed Oct 18, 2017 2:49 pm

twomillenium wrote:
flintknapper wrote:My Daughter applied on-line for her renewal back on 07/31/2017.

All looked good, no additional requests for information or other issues.

My Daughter is an RN and a 'travel nurse'...so she doesn't have time to check the status of the renewal to see how it is progressing. So I told her I would do that. I waited 30 days, nothing in the mail (not unusual), no change in status on-line. Waited another 30 days, same thing, no license in the mail, no update of status online. Gave it another 10 days, still nothing.

Requested an update of status online. Got an email stating that the license had been printed and mailed out on 08/09/2017 (or roughly one week after the application had been submitted). So I call them this morning to report that we never received the license and asked what can be done at this juncture to get another mailed out.

The lady I spoke to was very 'curt' and sounded much annoyed about my inquiry. I asked her why if the license had been processed and mailed out that there was NEVER (and still isn't) an update of the renewal status. How would a person know they were waiting on something that isn't going to show up.

She replied, that she could not give me that information or discuss it with me. Said that my Daughter would need to call. I explained that I was her Father and was trying to help her with the renewal since she has so little time. The lady repeated she could not help me...that she would need to speak to my Daughter. I certainly understand protocol....but asked her when my daughter does call, how will she know it is her and not just a 'female voice'?

To which she quipped "I will ask her for her Birth-date and Drivers License number". I said to her "That's it"? She said yes.

I told her I had that information in front of me, as well as her Social Security number, phone number and anything else she might need.

The lady then informed me that she was NOT going to discuss it further and to have my daughter call. She would then see what the situation was and what could be done.

So IF the license had been mailed when they said it was (and presumably lost), then we have been waiting for over 60 days unaware that it had (allegedly) been processed because of NO update to the status. As a result, my daughter (license now expired) has been out of State travel nursing....unable to carry her weapon.

Tell your daughter to call because:
GC §411.192. CONFIDENTIALITY OF RECORDS.
(a) The department shall disclose to a criminal justice agency information contained in its files and records regarding whether a named individual or any individual named in a specified list is licensed under this subchapter. Information on an individual subject to disclosure under this section includes the individual’s name, date of birth, gender, race, zip code, telephone number, e-mail address, and Internet website address. Except as otherwise provided by this section and by Section 411.193, all other records maintained under this subchapter are confidential and are not subject to mandatory disclosure under the open records law, Chapter 552.
Even applies to fathers!


Yes, except I was not asking for any of that information (individual’s name, date of birth, gender, race, zip code, telephone number, e-mail address, and Internet website address). I have all of that information.

My question was simply IF the license had actually been mailed (and presumably lost), WHAT do we need to do at this juncture? And also, WHY was there NEVER an update to the status. Pretty innocuous questions that do not involve them disclosing any personal information.
Last edited by flintknapper on Fri Oct 20, 2017 1:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: LTC renewal, come on DPS.......!

Postby flintknapper » Wed Oct 18, 2017 2:56 pm

RPBrown wrote:Have your wife call and act as your daughter :mrgreen:
Not that I would advocate anything illegal.



Correct. And according to the lady I spoke with, all she would require is the date of birth and DL number of my Daughter to give me the information. Oh yeah....and a female voice. In other words they have NO good way to establish they are actually talking to my Daughter.

I used her date of birth and DL to 'sign in' to check the status of her renewal all these many weeks (with my Daughters permission).

I have that information, plus her SS number, old CHL #, phone number, address, physical description, can tell you what scars she has...etc.

I can provide a heck of lot more than they require for I.D. Just can't speak in a feminine voice in order to get simple answers to simple non-security/privacy questions.
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infoman
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Re: LTC renewal, come on DPS.......!

Postby infoman » Wed Oct 18, 2017 3:53 pm

An angry soon to be ex-spouse would also have their Hubby/wife’s personal info, SSN, physical description, DL#, place of birth, everything under the sun, but the applicant may not want their soon to be ex calling in & getting info on their LTC. especially asking about when/where it’s being mailed to. Basically, if you or anyone you know calls & pretends to be your daughter they are technically doing something illegal. There’s a reason for the privacy policy & only legislation can change that.

As far as she goes, I bet she had a forwarding address or something like that being she moves around a lot. the USPS doesn’t forward official state mail.

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Re: LTC renewal, come on DPS.......!

Postby flintknapper » Wed Oct 18, 2017 4:16 pm

[quote="infoman" Basically, if you or anyone you know calls & pretends to be your daughter they are technically doing something illegal.
As far as she goes, I bet she had a forwarding address or something like that being she moves around a lot. the USPS doesn’t forward official state mail.[/quote]

Yes, perfectly understood. And at no time did I misrepresent myself or pretend to be someone else. Just wanting to find out what can be done at this point to have a replacement license sent, since obviously the original is not going to get here.

No forwarding address mix-up. All of her mail comes to my P.O.Box and I mail it to her current address as needed, has been that way for almost 5 years.
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Re: LTC renewal, come on DPS.......!

Postby ninjabread » Wed Oct 18, 2017 6:06 pm

I wonder if they mailed it to the address on her license instead of your PO box.

To echo others, I don't want DPS to give my LTC information to just anybody who has my DOB and SSN.
This is my opinion. There are many like it, but this one is mine.

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Re: LTC renewal, come on DPS.......!

Postby flintknapper » Wed Oct 18, 2017 6:56 pm

ninjabread wrote:I wonder if they mailed it to the address on her license instead of your PO box.

To echo others, I don't want DPS to give my LTC information to just anybody who has my DOB and SSN.


Not according to their email response to me. They cited my P.O.Box address (correctly) and stated that is where they mailed it to.

And again, I was not asking for information about the status of the license, I already had that info. It can be assumed (IF they mailed it) that it was lost in the mail.

My questions were:

1.What can be done at this juncture to have another one mailed out.
2. Isn't there supposed to be updated status online (so we could have known it had been mailed).
3. How are they going to verify the identity of my Daughter when she calls (with the exact same info I had)?

My objections being:

1. They failed to provide me basic information (what can be done). Not private info, not the status, nothing but what does a person do at this point.
2. They failed to provide updated status information (for 70 + days) so we were left in the dark and time wasted waiting on a license that hasn't and isn't going to show up.
3. Apparently, anyone with a modicum of information (DOB and TX DL) (and the correct voice for gender) 'could' access your information. I was just making that point to the lady.

The thing they did right (IF the license has been processed and renewed as they claim) is that it was done within a weeks time. Quite the record if true.
Last edited by flintknapper on Fri Oct 20, 2017 1:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: LTC renewal, come on DPS.......!

Postby SQLGeek » Fri Oct 20, 2017 9:12 am

infoman wrote: the USPS doesn’t forward official state mail.


They do from California. I'd be surprised if that's not the same for Texas.
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twomillenium
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Re: LTC renewal, come on DPS.......!

Postby twomillenium » Sat Oct 21, 2017 1:37 pm

flintknapper wrote:
twomillenium wrote:
flintknapper wrote:My Daughter applied on-line for her renewal back on 07/31/2017.

All looked good, no additional requests for information or other issues.

My Daughter is an RN and a 'travel nurse'...so she doesn't have time to check the status of the renewal to see how it is progressing. So I told her I would do that. I waited 30 days, nothing in the mail (not unusual), no change in status on-line. Waited another 30 days, same thing, no license in the mail, no update of status online. Gave it another 10 days, still nothing.

Requested an update of status online. Got an email stating that the license had been printed and mailed out on 08/09/2017 (or roughly one week after the application had been submitted). So I call them this morning to report that we never received the license and asked what can be done at this juncture to get another mailed out.

The lady I spoke to was very 'curt' and sounded much annoyed about my inquiry. I asked her why if the license had been processed and mailed out that there was NEVER (and still isn't) an update of the renewal status. How would a person know they were waiting on something that isn't going to show up.

She replied, that she could not give me that information or discuss it with me. Said that my Daughter would need to call. I explained that I was her Father and was trying to help her with the renewal since she has so little time. The lady repeated she could not help me...that she would need to speak to my Daughter. I certainly understand protocol....but asked her when my daughter does call, how will she know it is her and not just a 'female voice'?

To which she quipped "I will ask her for her Birth-date and Drivers License number". I said to her "That's it"? She said yes.

I told her I had that information in front of me, as well as her Social Security number, phone number and anything else she might need.

The lady then informed me that she was NOT going to discuss it further and to have my daughter call. She would then see what the situation was and what could be done.

So IF the license had been mailed when they said it was (and presumably lost), then we have been waiting for over 60 days unaware that it had (allegedly) been processed because of NO update to the status. As a result, my daughter (license now expired) has been out of State travel nursing....unable to carry her weapon.

Tell your daughter to call because:
GC §411.192. CONFIDENTIALITY OF RECORDS.
(a) The department shall disclose to a criminal justice agency information contained in its files and records regarding whether a named individual or any individual named in a specified list is licensed under this subchapter. Information on an individual subject to disclosure under this section includes the individual’s name, date of birth, gender, race, zip code, telephone number, e-mail address, and Internet website address. Except as otherwise provided by this section and by Section 411.193, all other records maintained under this subchapter are confidential and are not subject to mandatory disclosure under the open records law, Chapter 552.
Even applies to fathers!


Yes, except I was not asking for any of that information (individual’s name, date of birth, gender, race, zip code, telephone number, e-mail address, and Internet website address). I have all of that information.

My question was simply IF the license had actually been mailed (and presumably lost), WHAT do we need to do at this juncture? And also, WHY was there NEVER an update to the status. Pretty innocuous questions that do not involve them disclosing any personal information.

Just by answering the questions you may have about someone other than yourself the DPS would be admitting or confirming that there is an application in process. This would violate the confidentiality promised to the applicant. I guess your going to have to follow the rules like everyone else. I really don't understand why someone cannot call for themselves. Being too busy is an excuse and not a reason, 99.999999% of the time.
Texas LTC Instructor, NRA pistol instructor, RSO, NRA Endowment Life , TSRA, Glock enthusiast (tho I have others)
Knowledge is knowing a tomato is a fruit, wisdom is knowing not to add it to a fruit salad.

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flintknapper
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Re: LTC renewal, come on DPS.......!

Postby flintknapper » Sun Oct 22, 2017 8:56 pm

[/quote] Just by answering the questions you may have about someone other than yourself the DPS would be admitting or confirming that there is an application in process.

The question I was asking "what does a person do at this point to initiate having a replacement sent" applies to EVERYONE. It was a simple question soliciting 'procedure'. Heck it might be in their FAQ's for all I know. It did NOT involve revealing whether or not my daughter had applied for a renewal. That had been established already, how much plainer could that be? They already responded to my request for information of 'status' about her renewal. Which would not have been necessary...if they had done their job to begin with and updated the status (that is supposed to be available when you check online). They never did.

So the question at that point was NOT about an individual, it was a simple hypothetical question (that could apply to anyone) that might have been answered something like this: "Sir in cases where an issued renewal was mailed out but not received, after 30 days...an applicant may apply/request a replacement/duplicate license."

That would have been a helpful response. It speaks only to the 'procedure' necessary to secure a replacement. It does not in any way indicate that a certain person has applied for a license or reveal ANY personal information.



This would violate the confidentiality promised to the applicant.

Yes....IF I had asked if my daughter has a license to carry, or has/had applied for a license to carry. I did not ask the lady to reveal that. I already know the answer to that. The DPS sent me an email stating they had issued a renewal license and mailed to my address.

All that was being asked in the end was: What does a person (any person) do under that circumstance (to get a replacement) AND why was there never an update status? If I am wrong....I am happy to be corrected, but I am of the understanding...the DPS is supposed to provide updated status when searched or requested?



I guess your going to have to follow the rules like everyone else.

No one is trying to 'skirt' any rules here or be deceptive. I'm just pointing out plain and obvious flaws in their system which can (and apparently do) cause undue inconvenience to license holders.


I really don't understand why someone cannot call for themselves.

Most folks can and do. In this case, the license (if it was ever processed and mailed) has been lost for over 60 days (we are just now discovering). Of course, we had no way of knowing that because the DPS never updated the status. Only by making a formal request was I able to find out, they had no issues with providing that information.

So my Daughter...has been without her LTC (the old one having expired in the process). To make matters worse, she has been out of the Country for the last 12 days, so as a concerned Father, I am simply trying to see if there is anything I can do to resolve the issue or speed it up.


Being too busy is an excuse and not a reason, 99.999999% of the time.

Sure, easy to say if you aren't an ICU, Emergency Room, Rapid Response...RN working 5 consecutive 12 hr. shifts, out of State....traveling with two Dachshunds. ;-) Yes, she chose that life....I know.

Seriously, where is the harm in volunteering to do some legwork for your child...if you can help them in some small way.

This is real life, not an "excuse". Most of us are living the 'real life' about 99.999999% of the time.

[color=#0000BF]Thank You for your input,

Flint.



[/quote]
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Re: LTC renewal, come on DPS.......!

Postby 1911 10MM » Tue Oct 24, 2017 5:14 am

flintknapper wrote:
Just by answering the questions you may have about someone other than yourself the DPS would be admitting or confirming that there is an application in process.

The question I was asking "what does a person do at this point to initiate having a replacement sent" applies to EVERYONE. It was a simple question soliciting 'procedure'. Heck it might be in their FAQ's for all I know. It did NOT involve revealing whether or not my daughter had applied for a renewal. That had been established already, how much plainer could that be? They already responded to my request for information of 'status' about her renewal. Which would not have been necessary...if they had done their job to begin with and updated the status (that is supposed to be available when you check online). They never did.

So the question at that point was NOT about an individual, it was a simple hypothetical question (that could apply to anyone) that might have been answered something like this: "Sir in cases where an issued renewal was mailed out but not received, after 30 days...an applicant may apply/request a replacement/duplicate license."

That would have been a helpful response. It speaks only to the 'procedure' necessary to secure a replacement. It does not in any way indicate that a certain person has applied for a license or reveal ANY personal information.



This would violate the confidentiality promised to the applicant.

Yes....IF I had asked if my daughter has a license to carry, or has/had applied for a license to carry. I did not ask the lady to reveal that. I already know the answer to that. The DPS sent me an email stating they had issued a renewal license and mailed to my address.

All that was being asked in the end was: What does a person (any person) do under that circumstance (to get a replacement) AND why was there never an update status? If I am wrong....I am happy to be corrected, but I am of the understanding...the DPS is supposed to provide updated status when searched or requested?



I guess your going to have to follow the rules like everyone else.

No one is trying to 'skirt' any rules here or be deceptive. I'm just pointing out plain and obvious flaws in their system which can (and apparently do) cause undue inconvenience to license holders.


I really don't understand why someone cannot call for themselves.

Most folks can and do. In this case, the license (if it was ever processed and mailed) has been lost for over 60 days (we are just now discovering). Of course, we had no way of knowing that because the DPS never updated the status. Only by making a formal request was I able to find out, they had no issues with providing that information.

So my Daughter...has been without her LTC (the old one having expired in the process). To make matters worse, she has been out of the Country for the last 12 days, so as a concerned Father, I am simply trying to see if there is anything I can do to resolve the issue or speed it up.


Being too busy is an excuse and not a reason, 99.999999% of the time.

Sure, easy to say if you aren't an ICU, Emergency Room, Rapid Response...RN working 5 consecutive 12 hr. shifts, out of State....traveling with two Dachshunds. ;-) Yes, she chose that life....I know.

Seriously, where is the harm in volunteering to do some legwork for your child...if you can help them in some small way.

This is real life, not an "excuse". Most of us are living the 'real life' about 99.999999% of the time.

[color=#0000BF]Thank You for your input,

Flint.



[/quote][/quote]

SMH. This is only your opinion you were asking for just basic information, DPS feels differently. The simple solution is to have your daughter call. If it is that important she will find time. You are making a mountain out of a mole hill.


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