Calaveras and Braunig Lakes

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wharvey
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Calaveras and Braunig Lakes

Postby wharvey » Sat Apr 14, 2018 6:00 pm

Checked the lakes out today. Not good fishing at all with a strong N wind. I noticed 30.06 signs visible at the drive up window where you pay the fee. I think these parks are state parks, which can't ban carry. Problem is that instead of the usual no firearms allowed signs these were the actual 06 signs.

Anyone know if these are legally enforceable signs or just another example of an entity posting when they can not legally do so? They are under CPS controlling authority, not army corp, and the lakes are listed under the parks and wildlife department website.
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jmorris
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Re: Calaveras and Braunig Lakes

Postby jmorris » Sat Apr 14, 2018 6:13 pm

Actually both lakes were created when CPS Energy built the power stations and dams. They manage the lakes and dams. Management of the park is contacted out.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victor_Braunig_Lake
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G.A. Heath
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Re: Calaveras and Braunig Lakes

Postby G.A. Heath » Sat Apr 14, 2018 6:14 pm

I suspect both lakes are associated with the ACoE and are thus off limits under federal law.
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Re: Calaveras and Braunig Lakes

Postby jmorris » Sat Apr 14, 2018 6:53 pm

Neither are ACoE. They're private.
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RPBrown
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Re: Calaveras and Braunig Lakes

Postby RPBrown » Sat Apr 14, 2018 9:22 pm

It appears they are privately owned and therefore can be posted
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Re: Calaveras and Braunig Lakes

Postby JakeTheSnake » Sun Apr 15, 2018 1:43 am

Choke Canyon has a state park and you don't need a license to fish.


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Re: Calaveras and Braunig Lakes

Postby crazy2medic » Sun Apr 15, 2018 5:09 am

If my understanding of the 30.06 signs is correct, the prohibits you from entering a build or portion of a building, so as long as you don't enter any buildings it should be legal to carry.
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Re: Calaveras and Braunig Lakes

Postby G.A. Heath » Sun Apr 15, 2018 10:19 am

crazy2medic wrote:If my understanding of the 30.06 signs is correct, the prohibits you from entering a build or portion of a building, so as long as you don't enter any buildings it should be legal to carry.


Wrong, 30.06 and 30.07 use the term property, not premises.
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wharvey
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Re: Calaveras and Braunig Lakes

Postby wharvey » Sun Apr 15, 2018 10:22 pm

G.A. Heath wrote:
crazy2medic wrote:If my understanding of the 30.06 signs is correct, the prohibits you from entering a build or portion of a building, so as long as you don't enter any buildings it should be legal to carry.


Wrong, 30.06 and 30.07 use the term property, not premises.


I was wondering if it applied to just the store or not. I found both listed on the Texas Parks and Wildlife web site but not listed as a state park. Guess I'll have to drive all the way to Choke Canyon. Fishing is probably better anyway.

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Charles L. Cotton
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Re: Calaveras and Braunig Lakes

Postby Charles L. Cotton » Mon Apr 16, 2018 10:47 am

G.A. Heath wrote:
crazy2medic wrote:If my understanding of the 30.06 signs is correct, the prohibits you from entering a build or portion of a building, so as long as you don't enter any buildings it should be legal to carry.


Wrong, 30.06 and 30.07 use the term property, not premises.

Also, the narrow definition of "premises" applies to TPC §§46.03 and 46.035, not Chapter 30.

A good argument could be made that a 30.06 sign on a building renders the building off-limits, not the entire property.

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Re: Calaveras and Braunig Lakes

Postby BBYC » Mon Apr 16, 2018 12:46 pm

Charles L. Cotton wrote:
G.A. Heath wrote:
crazy2medic wrote:If my understanding of the 30.06 signs is correct, the prohibits you from entering a build or portion of a building, so as long as you don't enter any buildings it should be legal to carry.


Wrong, 30.06 and 30.07 use the term property, not premises.

Also, the narrow definition of "premises" applies to TPC §§46.03 and 46.035, not Chapter 30.

A good argument could be made that a 30.06 sign on a building renders the building off-limits, not the entire property.

Chas.

I agree if the building is open to the public. However, if the signs are posted on a ticket booth at the entrance wher you pay admission, I think a reasonable man would conclude it applies to the property for which you pay admission. The same principle would seem to apply to a park, amusement park, privately owned zoo, etc.
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Re: Calaveras and Braunig Lakes

Postby Charles L. Cotton » Mon Apr 16, 2018 3:49 pm

BBYC wrote:
Charles L. Cotton wrote:
G.A. Heath wrote:
crazy2medic wrote:If my understanding of the 30.06 signs is correct, the prohibits you from entering a build or portion of a building, so as long as you don't enter any buildings it should be legal to carry.


Wrong, 30.06 and 30.07 use the term property, not premises.

Also, the narrow definition of "premises" applies to TPC §§46.03 and 46.035, not Chapter 30.

A good argument could be made that a 30.06 sign on a building renders the building off-limits, not the entire property.

Chas.

I agree if the building is open to the public. However, if the signs are posted on a ticket booth at the entrance wher you pay admission, I think a reasonable man would conclude it applies to the property for which you pay admission. The same principle would seem to apply to a park, amusement park, privately owned zoo, etc.


:iagree:
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Re: Calaveras and Braunig Lakes

Postby Grundy1133 » Mon Apr 16, 2018 3:58 pm

since we're on the whole "parks" topic, if a park isn't owned by the state or federal govt and there's no signage you can carry there right? I want to attend a relay for life meeting that's taking place at a local park and wasn't sure if it wouuld be ok for me to carry or not.
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Re: Calaveras and Braunig Lakes

Postby apostate » Mon Apr 16, 2018 5:11 pm

Grundy1133 wrote:since we're on the whole "parks" topic, if a park isn't owned by the state or federal govt and there's no signage you can carry there right?

Cities generally don't have legal authority to prohibit "a person licensed to carry a handgun" from carrying in a park. However, be sure about land ownership because some parks are on COE land.

Note that National Parks follow state law, per 54 U.S.C. 104906.
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Re: Calaveras and Braunig Lakes

Postby ninjabread » Tue Apr 17, 2018 6:31 pm

Some people make it more complicated than it needs to be. Take a CPR class and you're immune from 30.06 without counting angels dancing on pinheads.
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