Gun Rug Concealment

[stash]

I have been wondering - would a handgun in a gun rug on the front seat of your car while you are driving meet the legal requirement of "concealed" in Texas? Now I am not talking about walking around with it or leaving it in plain view while not in the car. Thanks

[MoJo]

My gut feeling is yes. But, I have a problem with a gun just lying on the seat it could go flying during a crash or sudden stop.

[Liberty]

My gut feeling is yes. But, I have a problem with a gun just lying on the seat it could go flying during a crash or sudden stop.

When traveling I bring a cheap Uncle mikes with me and stick it between my seat and console. I don't worry to much about the gun going off in in a crash. My guns are supposed to have some built in safetys to prevent them going off if they are dropped.

[seamusTX]

I have been wondering - would a handgun in a gun rug on the front seat of your car while you are driving meet the legal requirement of "concealed" in Texas?

If you mean a zippered case, it would be up to the cop who saw it. Everyone who knows anything about shooting can recognize a gun case on sight.

I think you'd have better luck with a day planner that zips or has a Velcro fastening, or a camera or gym bag.

- Jim

[flintknapper]

I have been wondering - would a handgun in a gun rug on the front seat of your car while you are driving meet the legal requirement of "concealed" in Texas?

If you mean a zippered case, it would be up to the cop who saw it. Everyone who knows anything about shooting can recognize a gun case on sight.

I think you'd have better luck with a day planner that zips or has a Velcro fastening, or a camera or gym bag.

- Jim

I wouldn't think they would have this kind of latitude at all!

The intent of the law...is that the weapon be "concealed" (hidden from detection by an ordinary person). It can not "print" through anything covering it (to the degree that a normal person would recognize it).

Aside from that, you can cover it with a towel, a jacket, have it in a "rug", briefcase, under your seat, etc....

LEO, doesn't get to make up "law" to suit themselves.

Thats what we have DA's for. O.K. that a little mean.

[longtooth]

If I remember right that was hashed out in the beginning when holsters were scarse & most folks did not know where to find a true Conceal Carry Holster. Finally decided it was concealed by definition.

[seamusTX]

The intent of the law...is that the weapon be "concealed" (hidden from detection by an ordinary person). It can not "print" through anything covering it (to the degree that a normal person would recognize it)....

LEO, doesn't get to make up "law" to suit themselves.

Sure they do. The DA might choose not to prosecute, or a judge might dismiss the case. If that happens often enough, the officer might be looking at a career change. But at the moment, the officer has to decide whether the law is being broken.

Now, I recently became aware of a policy in Galveston County that alters this situation. If an officer is considering an arrest for something that is not obviously a serious offense, he has to get permission from an assistant DA.

P.S.: I should give an example. The Friendswood ISD has its parking lots posted with 30.06 signs. The FISD police have stated that they will arrest anyone found with a weapon on school grounds. This is clearly not in conformance with the law or the legislative intent of the change in the definition of premises in PC 46.0235 a few years back. This issue was covered in a recent TSRA Sportsman.

- Jim

[propellerhead]

I'd be more concerned about it flying out of my car when that distracted motorist runs the red light and hits my car. Besides, the first one to come up to your car window after a wreck isn't always concerned about you. Sometimes it's the one going for your wallet or whatever is easily available.

[flintknapper]

The intent of the law...is that the weapon be "concealed" (hidden from detection by an ordinary person). It can not "print" through anything covering it (to the degree that a normal person would recognize it)....

LEO, doesn't get to make up "law" to suit themselves.

Sure they do. The DA might choose not to prosecute, or a judge might dismiss the case. If that happens often enough, the officer might be looking at a career change. But at the moment, the officer has to decide whether the law is being broken.

Now, I recently became aware of a policy in Galveston County that alters this situation. If an officer is considering an arrest for something that is not obviously a serious offense, he has to get permission from an assistant DA.

P.S.: I should give an example. The Friendswood ISD has its parking lots posted with 30.06 signs. The FISD police have stated that they will arrest anyone found with a weapon on school grounds. This is clearly not in conformance with the law or the legislative intent of the change in the definition of premises in PC 46.0235 a few years back. This issue was covered in a recent TSRA Sportsman.

- Jim

By necessity this requires the officer to "know" the law. I am not arguing his authority to cause someone to "take the ride", but I am challenging the idea that LEO gets to decide what "law" is or its intent.

Plainly, a firearm in the average "rug" is concealed. If an officer can't get this "right" he is in serious need of better instruction IMO.

[seamusTX]

I admit I'm wrong about this, for the following reason: Penal Code §46.02 makes it an offense to have a gandgun in a vehicle if "the handgun is in plain view." I was thinking "not concealed." Clearly a weapon that is in an opaque container is not in plain view.

I still think it's not a good idea. When I carry a cased handgun, I put it under the seat, even though it has always been perfectly legal to carry to a shooting range.

On the larger issue, police don't always know the law perfectly. We argue at length about what it means, at leisure, with access to the Internet.

- Jim

[flintknapper]

I admit I'm wrong about this, for the following reason: Penal Code §46.02 makes it an offense to have a gandgun in a vehicle if "the handgun is in plain view." I was thinking "not concealed." Clearly a weapon that is in an opaque container is not in plain view.

I still think it's not a good idea. When I carry a cased handgun, I put it under the seat, even though it has always been perfectly legal to carry to a shooting range.

On the larger issue, police don't always know the law perfectly. We argue at length about what it means, at leisure, with access to the Internet.
- Jim

An excellent point...and one well taken here.

[seamusTX]

An excellent point...and one well taken here.

Thank you, sir.

Never forget Watauga, and hope it is never repeated.

- Jim

[fiftycal]

I believe there was a Supreme Court case where the "probable cause" for a search was that the person was wearing a knife sheath that "could conceal a knife with a blade longer than legal length". The Court said, "could you tell if there was a knife in the sheath just by looking"? NO was the answer. And the Court kicked the case because simply having a holster would not be probable cause to see what was in it.

Now, I carry my car gun in one of these attached to the passenger side seat belt.

http://store.thewilderness.com/index.php?cPath=51

This may not work as well if you have passengers.