Corps of Engineers campgrounds

[threeg45]

My question is that you are not to carry any weapon or ammo on Corps land, so what will you be charged with, if anything or are you just asked to leave? They manage some great camping areas.

[Piney]

My guess is a trip to Federal Court.

This is most definitely one of the things our legislators need to address- similar to the National Park situation.

[Wrightwing]

I am planning a trip to Lake Ray Roberts with my grandson. It is a Corps of Engineers lake in a State Park. Whose rules apply ?

[seamusTX]

The penalties for carrying weapons on COE "property" were discussed in this thread:
http://www.texasshooting.com/TexasCHL_F ... 6&p=174474

Lake Ray Roberts is a Texas state park, and you can carry a concealed handgun with a CHL there under state law.

However, this page says that it is "owned" by the COE and leased to TPWD:
http://www.swf-wc.usace.army.mil/rayroberts/

In that case, it looks like the COE rule against carrying loaded weapons applies.

- Jim

[eric]

Lake lavon is a corps lake but I don't think is has state parks. It has a few parks. What about carry in their parks. Pat Mayse lake at powderly texas is a corps. lake operated by Tulsa oklahoma district. Don't know if it is state park or not. This corps. thing has me confused now and Pat Mayse is not posted or does it not have to be?

[eric]

ok, got it figured out now, the state and fed need to get on the same page and would like to see the lease agreement from the fed to the state in case of run around from state leo who is confused also. Also does this mean if you are in a boat on a corps lake with chl and firearm, is that illegal too? Even if you used public ramp, not in a fed park.

[seamusTX]

I have never seen an explanation of how you are supposed to know what is COE "property," nor who would have the authority to question, search, or prosecute you if you violated their rules.

I have never heard of a COE police entity.

- Jim

[mr.72]

I just got back from Lake Georgetown (USA-COE lake) and went through three parks, looked at the entrances, there were no signs of any kind indicating whether or not firearms are allowed. Even if they are not required by law to post anything there, you would think it should be prudent given that TX has a CHL law allowing you to carry in most parks and pretty much all public places so most of us would likely assume LGT is legal unless otherwise noted.

Given the amount of time I spend at this lake, it would be nice to have a clear answer. Maybe I will email them and see what they say.

[Keith B]

Under the US Code of Regulations, Title 36--Parks, Forests, and Public Property

CHAPTER III--U.S. ARMY CORPS OF ENGINEERS

PART 327--RULES AND REGULATIONS GOVERNING PUBLIC USE OF WATER RESOURCES
DEVELOPMENT PROJECTS ADMINISTERED BY THE CHIEF OF ENGINEERS

327.13 Explosives, firearms, other weapons and fireworks.
(a) The possession of loaded firearms, ammunition, loaded projectile firing devices, bows and arrows, crossbows, or other weapons is prohibited unless:
(1) In the possession of a Federal, state or local law enforcement officer;
(2) Being used for hunting or fishing as permitted under 327.8, with devices being unloaded when transported to, from or between hunting and fishing sites;
(3) Being used at authorized shooting ranges; or
(4) Written permission has been received from the District Commander.
(b) Possession of explosives or explosive devices of any kind, including fireworks or other pyrotechnics, is prohibited unless written permission has been received from the District Commander.

Nowhere does it state a CHL is valid, or that state guidelines overrule the federal.

Also, this is from the Canyon Lake FAQ page at http://www.swf-wc.usace.army.mil/canyon/faq.asp

4) Can I have a fire arm in the park?
A concealed handgun permit is not valid on Federal property nor is the possession of a fire arm of any kind permitted in the parks.

IANAL, but I would assume if the property is under control of the Corp Park Rangers, then it is off limits. If the park is listed as a State Park, and the rangers are State Park Rangers, then it would still be gray area as the land is still USACOE property. However, since the state was in control, they probably would go by state rules if you were found with a firearm (but not guaranteed.)

A good example of a gray area is Copperas Branch Park. It is is leased from the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, and is located on the shoreline of Lewisville Lake in the northeast corner of Highland Village. The city maintains and controls it, but it it still federal property. Does the city control trump the federal ownership? Without a test case, it is not clear, and I am NOT volunteering to be the guinea pig.

[eric]

type in reserve america and there is a map of federal parks and state parks but some lakes show neither. I had to look awhile to find the right link, but it is confusing, lavon and pat mayse are both federal and no carry, glad that post was there.

[boomerang]

4) Can I have a fire arm in the park?
A concealed handgun permit is not valid on Federal property nor is the possession of a fire arm of any kind permitted in the parks.

The colonists tarred and feathered oppressive officials for less.

[mr.72]

I just emailed the Lake Georgetown info email address inquiring about carrying at the lake... here is the response:

> Absolutely no firearms are ever allowed on Government property anywhere at
> Lake Georgetown, no matter what license you hold. Thanks.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2008 12:46 PM
> To: Burditt, Olen R SWF
> Subject: CHL at Lake Georgetown?
>
> Hi-
>
> Are there any restrictions for TX CHL holders with regard to carrying
> handguns on Lake Georgetown parks, trails and parking areas?
>
> Thanks-

Thought it was kind of odd to get such a stern response, considering they do allow hunting in some areas.

Makes me wonder what part of the parks are "government property" and what part is not.

I should note there is no signage of any kind indicating that you cannot carry, at least not at the parks where I was yesterday.

[KC5AV]

A very succinct reply.

Here's the relevant code dealing with hunting.

327.13 Explosives, firearms, other weapons and fireworks.
(a) The possession of loaded firearms, ammunition, loaded projectile firing devices, bows and arrows, crossbows, or other weapons is prohibited unless:
(1) In the possession of a Federal, state or local law enforcement officer;
(2) Being used for hunting or fishing as permitted under 327.8, with devices being unloaded when transported to, from or between hunting and fishing sites;
(3) Being used at authorized shooting ranges; or
(4) Written permission has been received from the District Commander.
(b) Possession of explosives or explosive devices of any kind, including fireworks or other pyrotechnics, is prohibited unless written permission has been received from the District Commander.

[ancient18]

I would think that if you have a firearm on your boat that would fall under the Castle rule. Correct?

[Soccerdad1995]

I just emailed the Lake Georgetown info email address inquiring about carrying at the lake... here is the response:

> Absolutely no firearms are ever allowed on Government property anywhere at
> Lake Georgetown, no matter what license you hold. Thanks.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> Sent: Tuesday, May 27, 2008 12:46 PM
> To: Burditt, Olen R SWF
> Subject: CHL at Lake Georgetown?
>
> Hi-
>
> Are there any restrictions for TX CHL holders with regard to carrying
> handguns on Lake Georgetown parks, trails and parking areas?
>
> Thanks-

Thought it was kind of odd to get such a stern response, considering they do allow hunting in some areas.

Makes me wonder what part of the parks are "government property" and what part is not.

I should note there is no signage of any kind indicating that you cannot carry, at least not at the parks where I was yesterday.

So based on this response, I guess there are no armed LEO's (state or federal) on that land. Either that, or this person is giving out untrue information.