Carrying in a Preschool?

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ClarkLZeuss
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Carrying in a Preschool?

Postby ClarkLZeuss » Tue Mar 17, 2009 2:55 pm

The thread about daycare made me think of this. Next Fall, our daughter will be 3 and attending preschool. My first instinct is that no carrying would be allowed there (like when I drop her off/pick her up). However, the preschool is held at a church, which I do not recall being posted. So, is carrying allowed there? How should I proceed?
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Re: Carrying in a Preschool?

Postby CrimsonSoul » Tue Mar 17, 2009 4:07 pm

It's ok to ccw at a school if you are dropping off or picking up someone but not if u get out of the car as far as I understand anyway. Of u get out of the car the gin was to stay in the car
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Re: Carrying in a Preschool?

Postby shawn » Tue Mar 17, 2009 4:12 pm

my opinion would be you can not carry in the premises of a pre-school.

PC46.03 a person commits an offense yada yada yada
(1) on the physical premises of a school or educational institution.


PC46.035 (f)(3)Premises means a building or a portion of the building. The term does not include any publick or private driveway, street, sidewalk or walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area.



PS, I am not a lawyer, and I don't have a license......yet :biggrinjester:

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Re: Carrying in a Preschool?

Postby Purplehood » Tue Mar 17, 2009 4:18 pm

shawn wrote:my opinion would be you can not carry in the premises of a pre-school.

PC46.03 a person commits an offense yada yada yada
(1) on the physical premises of a school or educational institution.


PC46.035 (f)(3)Premises means a building or a portion of the building. The term does not include any publick or private driveway, street, sidewalk or walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area.



PS, I am not a lawyer, and I don't have a license......yet :biggrinjester:


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Re: Carrying in a Preschool?

Postby WildBill » Tue Mar 17, 2009 4:38 pm

IANAL, but a pre-school is a pre-school, not a school. :???:
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Re: Carrying in a Preschool?

Postby will381796 » Tue Mar 17, 2009 4:49 pm

WildBill wrote:IANAL, but a pre-school is a pre-school, not a school. :???:


Exactly. Pre=before. Pre-school = almost school, but not quite yet. lol
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Re: Carrying in a Preschool?

Postby TxFig » Tue Mar 17, 2009 5:02 pm

Purplehood wrote:
shawn wrote:my opinion would be you can not carry in the premises of a pre-school.

PC46.03 a person commits an offense yada yada yada
(1) on the physical premises of a school or educational institution.

PS, I am not a lawyer, and I don't have a license......yet :biggrinjester:


If you care to interpret that literally, you better stay away from Dog Obedience classes while packing.




Or homeschools.


Being a homeschool parent, and on the BoD of our local homeschool support group, I actually thought about this.
One of the things we (our group) does is to have a facility that has many uses. One of the uses is a place for co-ops to meet (a co-op is basically where teaching duties are shared among several moms). It could VERY loosely be called a "educational institution".

Thing is, homeschoolers tend to have CHL's at a much higher rate than the general population. We'd be more liable to put up a sign that would indicate that CHLs are *welcomed*.


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Re: Carrying in a Preschool?

Postby shootthesheet » Tue Mar 17, 2009 5:28 pm

If you run the home school you can write yourself and all CHL holders a permission to carry letter to carry anywhere you/they want.

And sorry guys, pre-school is part of most if not all schools in this state now. Headstart is even associated with schools from what I understand. I could be wrong and would like someone "in the know" to straighten me out.

TxFig wrote:
Purplehood wrote:
shawn wrote:my opinion would be you can not carry in the premises of a pre-school.

PC46.03 a person commits an offense yada yada yada
(1) on the physical premises of a school or educational institution.

PS, I am not a lawyer, and I don't have a license......yet :biggrinjester:


If you care to interpret that literally, you better stay away from Dog Obedience classes while packing.




Or homeschools.


Being a homeschool parent, and on the BoD of our local homeschool support group, I actually thought about this.
One of the things we (our group) does is to have a facility that has many uses. One of the uses is a place for co-ops to meet (a co-op is basically where teaching duties are shared among several moms). It could VERY loosely be called a "educational institution".

Thing is, homeschoolers tend to have CHL's at a much higher rate than the general population. We'd be more liable to put up a sign that would indicate that CHLs are *welcomed*.

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Re: Carrying in a Preschool?

Postby WildBill » Tue Mar 17, 2009 6:12 pm

shootthesheet wrote:And sorry guys, pre-school is part of most if not all schools in this state now. Headstart is even associated with schools from what I understand. I could be wrong and would like someone "in the know" to straighten me out.

As discussed in previous [and ongoing] threads, the term "school" is not defined by statute and there is no case law so much of this discussion is speculative - even those "in the know" don't know.

IANAL or a judge, but I would rule that only state-funded learning institutions, kindergarten through university, are legally classified as "schools." I would rule that a privately-funded learning institutions are like other any private business which have the prerogative to post 30.06 signs [except for the parking lots, of course].

That is one of the reasons that I won't ever be appointed to the bench. I am too liberal in my thinking. :lol:
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Re: Carrying in a Preschool?

Postby barres » Wed Mar 18, 2009 8:54 am

Think like the jury that would be hearing your case were you ever somehow found to be carrying. Do most people think of Pre-school as school these days? I would argue that they do, especially since so many public school districts offer pre-school. I would leave my CCW in my car, were I in your situation.
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Re: Carrying in a Preschool?

Postby Purplehood » Wed Mar 18, 2009 9:44 am

barres wrote:Think like the jury that would be hearing your case were you ever somehow found to be carrying. Do most people think of Pre-school as school these days? I would argue that they do, especially since so many public school districts offer pre-school. I would leave my CCW in my car, were I in your situation.


Simple. Is it a member of a school district? If it is not, it is a business.
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Re: Carrying in a Preschool?

Postby barres » Fri Mar 20, 2009 9:59 am

Purplehood wrote:
barres wrote:Think like the jury that would be hearing your case were you ever somehow found to be carrying. Do most people think of Pre-school as school these days? I would argue that they do, especially since so many public school districts offer pre-school. I would leave my CCW in my car, were I in your situation.


Simple. Is it a member of a school district? If it is not, it is a business.


A private school is not part of a school district, so it is a business and not a school, too, right? I think we both know that argument wouldn't fly if you were caught carrying in a private school. The truth of the matter is, until the Leg decides to define school in the Texas Penal Code, we're all having to guess at this one. We want to carry everywhere we go, but we are prevented from carrying to certain places that are not always well-defined. I, personally, would not carry to a pre-school. YMMV.

I moved my younger son from the day-care wing of an accredited private school to a simple daycare, in part, because I couldn't carry when picking him up and dropping him off at the private school (mostly because it was cheaper, but family defense was part of the decision).
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Re: Carrying in a Preschool?

Postby TxAggieEngineer » Tue Jan 05, 2016 12:11 pm

I've had this same question. The problem is not the CHL/LTC statues but that the Texas Administrative Code that covers child care facilities. Section 746.3707(b) states that firearms are "prohibited on the premises of the child-care center, unless the child-care center is also your residence".

In my opinion, this conflicts with the CHL statutes so I contacted the Attorney General's office, who referred me to the county attorney, who then referred me to the sheriff's office. I spoke with a deputy and was told that 746.3707(b) takes precedence and that LTC holders are not permitted to carry there.

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Re: Carrying in a Preschool?

Postby Vol Texan » Tue Jan 05, 2016 12:22 pm

TxAggieEngineer wrote:I've had this same question. The problem is not the CHL/LTC statues but that the Texas Administrative Code that covers child care facilities. Section 746.3707(b) states that firearms are "prohibited on the premises of the child-care center, unless the child-care center is also your residence".

In my opinion, this conflicts with the CHL statutes so I contacted the Attorney General's office, who referred me to the county attorney, who then referred me to the sheriff's office. I spoke with a deputy and was told that 746.3707(b) takes precedence and that LTC holders are not permitted to carry there.


Interesting thread revival from 2009.

But this one has been asked and answered since then:
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=79573&p=1011561

It is not against the law to carry. Administrative code is not criminal code. Could they lose their license if they knowingly allow it? Possibly.

Now if this preschool is also a school (as in the case of the place my daughter went), then no, you cannot carry into the buildings or at a school function.

Dropping off kids is not a school function. I can walk up to the door of my daughter's elementary school armed. I can visit with other armed parents in the playground there. But I cannot step inside, even just to visit the bathroom for a minute, if I am armed.
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