can you carry on city property?

[too-tall]

Hey guys,
Last week-end my wife and I took our grandson to the museum of natural science in Houston. I wasnt sure about the law on carrying because the laws have changed so much, so I left it in the truck.
Can you carry at the zoo, George R. Brown, and museum? While I dont worry so much while I am inside, its the walking around outside to and from my truck that concerns me. I did not notice any 30.06 signs, but I might have missed them.
Thanks for any imfo.........

Too Tall

[Charles L. Cotton]

You can carry in/on city owned property, other than the locations listed in Texas Penal Code Sections 46.03 & 46.035. (Typically, schools, sports arenas, courthouses, polling places, etc.) I don't think the city-owned museum or zoo are posted with 30.06 signs anyway. At least they weren't about six months ago. Be careful with private museums in the Museum District.

However, beware with the George R. Brown Convention Center. As discussed in the thread NRA 2005 Annual Meeting & Exhibits . . . in the General Gun, Shooting & Equipment Discussion section, it is my opinion that 30.06 signs are unenforceable, even if posted by lessee's of the convention center, but you don't want to be the test case.

Regards,
Chas.

[Braden]

Charles, I'm not too familiar with Houston or the convention center, but can you elaborate on why the 30.06 signs would be unenforceable??

[Charles L. Cotton]

Hi Braden:
My opinion that 30.06 signs would not be enforceable at the George R. Brown Convention Center is based upon the express limitation set forth in Texas Penal Code Section 30.06. Subsection (e) reads as follows:

(e) It is an exception to the application of this section that the property on which the license holder carries a handgun is owned or leased by a governmental entity and is not a premises or other place on which the license holder is prohibited from carrying the handgun under Section 46.03 or 46.035.

The controlling issue is "does a governmental entity own (or lease) the property?" Since the Brown Convention Center is owned by the City of Houston, Section 30.06 would not be applicable.

The position that some cities are taking is that city-owned property that is leased to a non-governmental entity, such as a gun show or concert promoter, is not subject to the express limitations in Section 30.06, if the lessee of the property wishes to post a 30.06 sign. I believe this reasoning is erroneous.

While a lessee of property belonging to another does assume some of the rights of the owner, the lessee also "takes" the property subject to all lawful and statutory restrictions and limitations. A few examples may help. If the owner of property could not use the property for a bar, because a city ordnance prohibits the placement of bar within 1,000 feet of a school, then the lessee would also be subject to that limitation. The lessee of a condominium unit "takes" the unit subject to all lawful restrictions set forth by the homeowner's association, such as a provisions prohibiting pets, or limiting their number.

Another example: A city could not enforce a policy that would exclude people from a city-owned convention center, based upon their race, religion or gender, nor could a private person do so, if they leased that convention center for a party.

Since Section 30.06 expressly does not apply any property "owned or leased by a governmental entity," then it is my opinion that the lessee "takes" the property under the lease subject to this statutory limitation.

Remember, the rationale for the governmental property exclusion from Section 30.06 is the fact that governmental property is "owned" by all citizens and is distinct from private property. We still own it, even if the property is subject to a short-term or long-term lease to an event promoter.

As previously noted, by no means am I suggesting that anyone take on the role of test case, unless you go into it understanding the cost in time and money.

Regards,
Chas.

[Braden]

That's interesting reading Charles. I must admit I never really noticed that in the 30.06 code.

Based on that same logic, I think the 30.06 sign that is always posted at the gun show at Dallas Market Hall may be unenforceable (I believe it is owned by the city). Of course...I'm not going to be the one to test that theory.

[Baytown]

Come on Braden! What are you, CHICKEN? :)

Glenn

[Braden]

Yes. :D

[isa268]

I went to the Houston Museum of Natural Science yesterday, for my birthday to see the “Lord of the Rings� exhibit and the “Gold� exhibit.

A little history first I guess, my girlfriend does not like guns, I normally don’t carry around her, but if this relationship progresses to co-habitation she’s going to have to get use to the gun. So after much “debate� I got to carry yesterday. I haven’t been to the Museum since getting my CHL so I didn’t know if it was posted or not. I didn’t see one the last time I was there but I wasn’t looking. I also figured it’s probably City owned and can’t post legally.

After walking thru the “Lord of the Rings� exhibit we go out side to make a call and on our way back in I see a sign on the glass door that says something about no guns and PC 46.01. my anti girlfriend also sees it and FREAKS. Saying we’re going to get arrested (don’t you just love anti’s) I try to explain that the sign does not pertain to me, to no avail. Not only that but it was pealing off like it had been there since when the City could post it’s property. We go in and QUICKLY get some souvenirs (you’ve never seen a woman shop so fast! )

I was going to ask if the Museum of Natural Science was posted legally but then I found this tread so now I’m just posting my experience.

Oh security in the “Lord of the Rings� exhibit was high. I guess they didn’t want any sword wielding freaks rampaging thru the Museum. And the exhibit was good, if you liked the movie you should go see the exhibit. AND TAKE YOUR GUN!!

[anygunanywhere]

A little history first I guess, my girlfriend does not like guns, I normally don’t carry around her, but if this relationship progresses to co-habitation she’s going to have to get use to the gun.

isa268,

You want to get to the point where your main squeeze walks next to you arm in arm, and when she seeks comfort, she reaches up and nudges your favorite carry piece tucked away in your favorite holster and gives you that loving glance you long for. Also, when you exit the vehicle to fuel up her ride, she reaches for her favorite caeey piece to make it a little more accessible while you are out of the vehicle.

Anygun :)

[isa268]

oh and if your woundering how an anti is dateing a CHL holder. i got the CHL after we started dateing. i had rifles (SKS and muzzle loader) before and then got the SW1911SC, and figured mine as well get my CHL.

[gigag04]

oh and if your woundering how an anti is dateing a CHL holder. i got the CHL after we started dateing. i had rifles (SKS and muzzle loader) before and then got the SW1911SC, and figured mine as well get my CHL.

Might try gentle conversation and education. NRA has some literature on gun safety - share it with her.

I don't know about you, but I couldnt trust an anti enough to date them but I wish you the best!

[Charles L. Cotton]

isa268:
Marc (TraCoun) and I teach quite a few ladies-only NRA Basic Pistol courses, as well as the NRA Basic Personal Protection in the Home courses. The ladies-only format has been extremely popular. It is very common in the Basic Pistol course to have at least one lady who is either there because her husband or boyfriend wanted her to get some training, or because they are terrified of guns and want to overcome it themselves.

We have yet to have one of them leave without enjoying themselves and feeling much more comfortable about guns. We teach at PSC in Friendswood and will be scheduling two more classes in the next 2 or 3 months.

Regards,
Chas.

[stevie_d_64]

isa268...

I was never really sure about where my "wife" stood on the issue...She never really had a problem with them, and years later told me she wanted to get her "Permit"...(oh, great...She want to shoot me now...echhh)

Well, I'm still here and breathing...

As Charles said above, their are plenty of courses and events that ladies can go to, to learn more about guns...None of which I think are there to pressure anyone to change their minds about anything...I think they either learn more about them and get used to the idea, or they take to it like ducks to water...

My wife has her permit...She does not carry at all...But she has it...

I'm buying her "ladies class" this weekend at our nearby range PSC, and will not interfere or comment at all during the class...

I'm actually hoping a PSC member will hop along and let me shoot as a guest while she has her fun...

I'm even letting her use my Glock 23 (gasp!), while I use my crappy SigPro 2340...echhhh...She likes the Glock better than the Sig...

The best way I know to increase the interest and tolerance of firearms for women is this...Get them with other women who are knowledgable about the issue...And let them handle it...Don't say a word...Be extremely hands off...

did I say that??? I'm in trouble now...

[KBCraig]

After walking thru the “Lord of the Rings� exhibit we go out side to make a call and on our way back in I see a sign on the glass door that says something about no guns and PC 46.01. my anti girlfriend also sees it and FREAKS. Saying we’re going to get arrested (don’t you just love anti’s) I try to explain that the sign does not pertain to me, to no avail.

The problem here is that she doesn't trust you. She doesn't trust that you know the law, she doesn't trust that you'll obey it, and she doesn't trust that your gun won't leap from its holster and start spraying mayhem.

This distrust might be the result of her extreme hoplophobia. Or it might be reflective of her general distrust of men (which could, in itself, have many causes). Or it might just be that she doesn't trust you, for whatever reason.

Instead of worrying about how to deal with this if things progress to cohabitation, I'd be worrying about things going wrong, and getting slapped upside the head with an allegation of domestic violence, and a restraining order, which would make you a felon for even knowing where you could access a firearm.

Only you can decide if whatever you're getting is worth the risk.

Kevin

[jimlongley]

My first wife was kind of neutral, she just hadn't given it much thought being too busy being a single mom to care much. We eventually shot on a rifle team together.

My second wife, when we were dating, came to my house for the first time, and when she saw my gun cabinet she said "I don't know if I can live in a house with guns." She now has her CHL and fired a perfect score on her CHL requalification.

Gentle persuasion.