Can I carry in Post Offices or not?

[Suckhow]

Once I receive my CHL (if it ever happens, as I have already waited 105 days), can I carry in post offices? I have read conflicting information that says federal laws prohibiting CCW in post offices supercede state laws require a 30.06 sign.

This issue was not covered in my CHL training. Anyone know? Sorry if this is a repost, but I searched the forum and did not find an answer.

[jimlongley]

According to my CHL instructor the answer is NO.

[Blazen]

According to my CHL instructor the answer is NO.

I agree with Jimlongley. PO is still off limits.

[MoJo]

This subject has come up on several web sites the consensus is: yes, no, sometimes or, maybe. :? Nobody knows for sure - - - there is a "lawful purposes" provision in the Post Office regulations about firearms but, without a court ruling, I'd leave "Ole Betsy" in the car. That is, unless you want to be the test case.

[BobCat]

Depends on how you read the law, and who is interpreting it.

Here is the link:

TITLE 18 > PART I > CHAPTER 44 > § 930 Prev | Next http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html ... -000-.html

§ 930. Possession of firearms and dangerous weapons in Federal facilities

Ther *is* a "lawful purposed" clause, but who wants to be a test case?

Regards,
Andrew

[dolanp]

Here is one analysis.

I don't necessarily agree with it though. I think it is a very grey area and you are walking into a real 'test case' scenario. Of course, on the other hand, concealed means concealed and if your life is threatened you are better off protecting it than dying trying to avoid legal entanglements. Comes down to a personal risk/benefit analysis that you must decide for yourself.

[Mrjayjay00]

Since this is such a great topic why not just call the post master at your local post office. They won't know who is calling anyway. Explain your situation if he says yes great then you will know. We will all know if you post the reply for us. If he says no well great as well cause if you get caught in the post office with it that is your bu"". I probably wouldn't carry if they had it posted but again I think there is a very fine line there and if come up in court that you were carrying in a federal building I could almost guarantee you your gonna need a good lawyer and lots of money. Not only that if you are convicted of it that will affect the rest of your life as well. Ya might also look into some alternative means of self defense as well, maybe some oc or pepper spray. Anyway you probably won't get a better answer than calling your post master. I would like to know myself I'm sure others here would like to know as well.

[HighVelocity]

I do not carry in the PO. I pull up, remove my gun and leave it in the car. When I get back in the car I lock the doors, look around for prying eyes and reholster. It's a nuisance but it beats a free ride in a patrol car.

[Greybeard]

Not wanting to be the "test case", I pretty much do what High Velocity said - if I even go to a "real" post office. Years ago, I started doing most of my postal transactions at an "independent" location, where the owner promptly became one of my CHL students. :D

He's quite helpful with various shipping circumstances and we sometimes discretely check "loaded weights" of various carry guns on his digital scales. I doubt anyone will find a "postmaster" willing to assist with THAT.

[ElGato]

I wouldn't depend on the Postmaster to give, or even know a correct interpretion.
I'm with High Velocity on this one, it's Federal, they don't have to comply with State Law, I don't carry.
Tomcat

[waffenmacht]

I also came to packing.org and asked that same question about a year ago. I did not get a strait answer. So... I went into my local post office here in a small town in Texas. I asked the postmaster, who was had been employed by the postal service for 22 years. I asked him if he had ever received any training or instruction on whether someone could carry a firearm in the post office. He answered that in 22 years he had not. So, I explained to him that I had a valid Texas CHL, which is why I was asking. He stated that it was his OPINION that I could carry, since I was licensed. He pointed out the fact that the local cops carry in there all the time, and don't disarm to enter the building. He also pointed out that the Post Office also ships firearms, so it must not be totally illegal to bring one into the building. The he said, "well, if you are carrying concealed, how would anyone know anyway?"... I guess although I walked away with no real legal decision on whether I could carry or not, I did better understand that this must not be an issue encountered with the USPS very often. .....And the pursuit continues for a hard answer to this age old question

[Charles L. Cotton]

18 USC 930 (d)(3)’s “other lawful purposes� language is often cited on the Internet as authority to carry firearms on postal property, as well as other facilities. The problem many folks don't realize is that many federal agencies have provisions in the Code of Federal Regulations (CFR) dealing solely with that particular agency. The CFR provisions are created pursuant to enabling federal legislation, i.e. a federal statute in the United States Code (USC).

The Postal Service is no exception. 39 CFR 232.1 deals with several aspects of the Postal Service operation. 39 CFR 232.1(l) prohibits the carrying of firearms on postal property. This prohibition is not limited to the buildings. In fact, 39 CFR 232.1(a) states that “This section applies to all real property under the charge and control of the Postal Service, to all tenant agencies, and to all persons entering in or on such property.�

An unusual provision is found in 39 CFR 232.1(p)(2) which stated in part as follows, “Nothing contained in these rules and regulations shall be construed to abrogate any other Federal laws or regulations of any State and local laws and regulations applicable to any area in which the property is situated.� This ambiguous language has been quoted for the premise that 1) it defers to 18 USC 930(d)(3); and 2) it defers to state laws and local ordinances. The argument then concludes that CHL holders can carry on Postal Service property.

This contention may be correct, but I know of no case so holding. There is also reason to doubt this analysis. First, CFR provisions are authorized by specific federal statutes. (I don’t have the specific enabling statute for 39 CFR 232.1.) These specific statutes control over the more general 18 USC 930(d)(3). Also, federal laws do not defer to state law, but I admit that the express language in 39 CFR 232.1(p)(2) seems to do precisely that.

The bottom line is 39 CFR 232.1(l) prohibits the carrying of firearms anywhere on Postal Service property (not just buildings) and the effect of 39 CFR 232.1(p)(2) on a CHL’s status is uncertain. Play it safe, either stay off Postal Service property, or . . . [you fill in the blank].

Regards,
Chas.

[one eyed fatman]

So how's anybody going to know if your CC in the post office? If your concealing properly, no one will know. Some of you guy's worry to much. Kick back and have a beer or a life or something.

[KBCraig]

Charles, thanks for the legal info.

Do you know where it exempts persons coming in to ship firearms? That's perfectly legal, and it's the preferred method (being cheaper) for C&R FFLs like myself.

If there's no exception to 39 CFR 232.1(l), then there's no legal way to carry the firearm into the PO for shipping. And it's long been established that mailing long guns is legal (as well as handguns for Type 01 FFLs (dealers)). The USPS has specific regulations about how to do so.

Kevin

[GrillKing]

The bottom line is 39 CFR 232.1(l) prohibits the carrying of firearms anywhere on Postal Service property (not just buildings) and the effect of 39 CFR 232.1(p)(2) on a CHL’s status is uncertain. Play it safe, either stay off Postal Service property, or . . . [you fill in the blank].

Regards,
Chas.

In my CHL class, the instructor concurred with what Charles states: No carry on PO Property, grounds and building.