Post Office Law Suit to Repeal Carry Rule

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Re: Post Office Law Suit to Repeal Carry Rule

Postby Charles L. Cotton » Sun Jul 27, 2014 6:18 pm

MeMelYup wrote:Could the outcome of Palmer vs D.C. Have an effect on this? http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2014/image ... .order.pdf


No, not yet if at all. This is a decision by a federal district court. It's a very good decision, but it needs to be upheld by the DC Court of Appeals, then the Supreme Court. Even if the SCOTUS upholds the decision, it will likely hold that some restrictions are constitutional. Heller noted that some restrictions will be constitutional, including excluding firearms from "sensitive" locations. The question will be how much deference is given to decisions by Congress and governmental agencies.

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Re: Post Office Law Suit to Repeal Carry Rule

Postby MeMelYup » Sun Jul 27, 2014 7:15 pm

Charles L. Cotton wrote:
MeMelYup wrote:Could the outcome of Palmer vs D.C. Have an effect on this? http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2014/image ... .order.pdf


No, not yet if at all. This is a decision by a federal district court. It's a very good decision, but it needs to be upheld by the DC Court of Appeals, then the Supreme Court. Even if the SCOTUS upholds the decision, it will likely hold that some restrictions are constitutional. Heller noted that some restrictions will be constitutional, including excluding firearms from "sensitive" locations. The question will be how much deference is given to decisions by Congress and governmental agencies.

Chas.

Tks.
I'm talking more the public areas, not secured. For instance you go to the local Social Security office to drop off paperwork for disability and never go into the secured area where a guard searches you. Or, you go to the Post Office to buy stamps, not to be interviewed for a passport where you would be required to enter the secure area.


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Re: Post Office Law Suit to Repeal Carry Rule

Postby Misfit Child » Sun Aug 03, 2014 1:55 pm

mojo84 wrote:Let us know how that works for you.

Swimmingly. Thanks for asking.

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Re: Post Office Law Suit to Repeal Carry Rule

Postby mojo84 » Sun Aug 03, 2014 10:39 pm

Misfit Child wrote:
mojo84 wrote:Let us know how that works for you.

Swimmingly. Thanks for asking.



So, you are saying you've used force to prove the Constitution allows you to carry in a post office and it worked out "swimmingly"? Please tell us more. Would really be interested learning more of your story regarding this issue.
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Re: Post Office Law Suit to Repeal Carry Rule

Postby jmra » Mon Aug 04, 2014 8:40 pm

mojo84 wrote:
Misfit Child wrote:
mojo84 wrote:Let us know how that works for you.

Swimmingly. Thanks for asking.



So, you are saying you've used force to prove the Constitution allows you to carry in a post office and it worked out "swimmingly"? Please tell us more. Would really be interested learning more of your story regarding this issue.

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Re: Post Office Law Suit to Repeal Carry Rule

Postby C-dub » Thu Sep 04, 2014 8:01 pm

Charles L. Cotton wrote:
switch wrote:If you are not engaging in self-defense 24-7, you are crazy. I guess I am not engaging in self-defense when I am in White, when I have a defensive perimeter.


You want to equate preparation for an activity with engaging in the activity. They are distinctly different actions.

Being prepared to defend yourself is not "engaging in self-defense." I have a fire extinguisher in my home, but I'm not engaged in fighting a fire "24-7." I'm not engaging in fighting a fire until I pull the pin and start putting out a fire. I have anti-acid in my medicine cabinet in case I need it, but I'm not engaging in treating heartburn "24-7."

Chas.

That's where I was going with that too. I haven't read this thread for a few weeks and you beat me to it by almost a week. Preparing and being actively engaged in the act of self defense are very different indeed.
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Re: Post Office Law Suit to Repeal Carry Rule

Postby Sim597 » Wed Sep 10, 2014 2:22 pm

It's apparent to me ( overly ) that Mr. Cotton has one undeniable characteristic after going over these 14 pages, and that is his patients. My lord the man has it in spades. The mere fact he repeats himself over and over with upmost civility cannot be lost on us forum members , or, at least shouldn't be.

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Re: Post Office Law Suit to Repeal Carry Rule

Postby MeMelYup » Wed Sep 10, 2014 6:51 pm

Does Texas law define Firearms Sensitive Places?


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Re: Post Office Law Suit to Repeal Carry Rule

Postby dicion » Wed Sep 24, 2014 5:45 pm

MeMelYup wrote:Does Texas law define Firearms Sensitive Places?


As far as I remember, only in context to the secure area of police stations. Nowhere else.


Sec. 411.207. AUTHORITY OF PEACE OFFICER
TO DISARM.
(b) A peace officer who is acting in the lawful
discharge of the officer's official duties may
temporarily disarm a license holder when a license
holder enters a nonpublic, secure portion of a law
enforcement facility, if the law enforcement agency
provides a gun locker where the peace officer can
secure the license holder's handgun. The peace
officer shall secure the handgun in the locker and
shall return the handgun to the license holder
immediately after the license holder leaves the
nonpublic, secure portion of the law enforcement
facility.


Even then, you cannot be prohibited from carrying in the secure area of a police station unless they have a location to securely store your firearm for you.

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Re: Post Office Law Suit to Repeal Carry Rule

Postby drjoker » Thu Oct 02, 2014 12:56 am

Charles L. Cotton wrote:
switch wrote:If you are not engaging in self-defense 24-7, you are crazy. I guess I am not engaging in self-defense when I am in White, when I have a defensive perimeter.


You want to equate preparation for an activity with engaging in the activity. They are distinctly different actions.

Being prepared to defend yourself is not "engaging in self-defense." I have a fire extinguisher in my home, but I'm not engaged in fighting a fire "24-7." I'm not engaging in fighting a fire until I pull the pin and start putting out a fire. I have anti-acid in my medicine cabinet in case I need it, but I'm not engaging in treating heartburn "24-7."

Chas.


Why is it legal to mail a rifle (not handgun) in the post office? I'm so confused!

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Re: Post Office Law Suit to Repeal Carry Rule

Postby mojo84 » Thu Oct 02, 2014 6:48 am

dicion wrote:
MeMelYup wrote:Does Texas law define Firearms Sensitive Places?


As far as I remember, only in context to the secure area of police stations. Nowhere else.


Sec. 411.207. AUTHORITY OF PEACE OFFICER
TO DISARM.
(b) A peace officer who is acting in the lawful
discharge of the officer's official duties may
temporarily disarm a license holder when a license
holder enters a nonpublic, secure portion of a law
enforcement facility, if the law enforcement agency
provides a gun locker where the peace officer can
secure the license holder's handgun. The peace
officer shall secure the handgun in the locker and
shall return the handgun to the license holder
immediately after the license holder leaves the
nonpublic, secure portion of the law enforcement
facility.


Even then, you cannot be prohibited from carrying in the secure area of a police station unless they have a location to securely store your firearm for you.



Actually, you can't carry in a secure area of a jail whether there is a locker or not. The police department is required to provide a locker to secure one's handgun. If they don't, they are in violation. However, you still cannot enter with a handgun.

On a practical note, it is highly unlikely there aren't lockers as the cops themselves can't enter a secure area with a handgun and they have to lock them up.
******TRIGGER WARNING****** If offended, go find yourself a safe place and color a pretty picture.

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Re: Post Office Law Suit to Repeal Carry Rule

Postby Keith B » Thu Oct 02, 2014 8:05 am

drjoker wrote:
Charles L. Cotton wrote:
switch wrote:If you are not engaging in self-defense 24-7, you are crazy. I guess I am not engaging in self-defense when I am in White, when I have a defensive perimeter.


You want to equate preparation for an activity with engaging in the activity. They are distinctly different actions.

Being prepared to defend yourself is not "engaging in self-defense." I have a fire extinguisher in my home, but I'm not engaged in fighting a fire "24-7." I'm not engaging in fighting a fire until I pull the pin and start putting out a fire. I have anti-acid in my medicine cabinet in case I need it, but I'm not engaging in treating heartburn "24-7."

Chas.


Why is it legal to mail a rifle (not handgun) in the post office? I'm so confused!


Becasue of the ATF laws https://www.atf.gov/content/firearms-fr ... ed-persons
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Re: Post Office Law Suit to Repeal Carry Rule

Postby srothstein » Sun Oct 05, 2014 9:50 pm

mojo84 wrote:Actually, you can't carry in a secure area of a jail whether there is a locker or not. The police department is required to provide a locker to secure one's handgun. If they don't, they are in violation. However, you still cannot enter with a handgun.


Minor technical correction but there is no requirement for a jail to provide a locker for your weapon. Jails are correctional facilities and the entire premises is off limits, not just the secure area. The section requiring lockers for weapons deals with law enforcement facilities, which would mean police stations.

As an aside, I find it kind of funny to note that the ban on carrying in jails only applies to CHLs.
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Re: Post Office Law Suit to Repeal Carry Rule

Postby mojo84 » Mon Oct 06, 2014 3:20 pm

srothstein wrote:
mojo84 wrote:Actually, you can't carry in a secure area of a jail whether there is a locker or not. The police department is required to provide a locker to secure one's handgun. If they don't, they are in violation. However, you still cannot enter with a handgun.


Minor technical correction but there is no requirement for a jail to provide a locker for your weapon. Jails are correctional facilities and the entire premises is off limits, not just the secure area. The section requiring lockers for weapons deals with law enforcement facilities, which would mean police stations.

As an aside, I find it kind of funny to note that the ban on carrying in jails only applies to CHLs.


Yeah, I was thinking of jails that are part of police stations and sheriff's offices.

I thought the correctional facility code (can't remember office name) prohibited guns inside the secure area for every one including law enforcement personnel. Am I wrong on this?
Last edited by mojo84 on Tue Oct 07, 2014 9:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
******TRIGGER WARNING****** If offended, go find yourself a safe place and color a pretty picture.

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Re: Post Office Law Suit to Repeal Carry Rule

Postby srothstein » Tue Oct 07, 2014 9:38 pm

That is kind of the weird parts of our laws. If it is a police station, it is not usually a correctional facility even if it has a detention cell or two. Sheriff's offices get some unusual treatment in the law because the jail is a correctional facility while the rest of the office is just a law enforcement facility. The Penal Code reference on carrying may be interpreted either way in some cases (like Caldwell County where all of the offices and Jail are one building).

As for the prison system, I am unaware of any laws on it, though in general no weapons are allowed inside, even for law enforcement. I don't know about the guards themselves here. While I was in the Army and stationed at Ft. Leavenworth, we allowed no weapons inside the walls at all. The guards in the towers lowered the weapons outside the walls on ropes if they needed to exchange them for any reason.
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