How to check if a premise is 51%?

CHL discussions that do not fit into more specific topics

Moderators: Charles L. Cotton, carlson1

User avatar

bigtek
Member
Posts: 189
Joined: Sat Oct 15, 2016 9:48 am

Re: How to check if a premise is 51%?

Postby bigtek » Mon Jan 01, 2018 2:46 pm

Keith B wrote:
spectre wrote:The signs don't say weapons aren't allowed. They say the unlicensed possession of a weapon is a felony.

Obviously, the signs don't apply to an AR15, a Kershaw Blur, or a small OC canister. Why? Because carrying those weapons in that location isn't a felony.

P.S. I'm in Texas.


A rifle (firearm) is an unlicensed weapon, as is a Kershaw Blur (knife). A small OC canister is not a weapon as it is specifically exempted in TPC 46.01(14):
(14) "Chemical dispensing device" means a device, other than a small chemical dispenser sold commercially for personal protection, that is designed, made, or adapted for the purpose of dispensing a substance capable of causing an adverse psychological or physiological effect on a human being.


And while not a felony, the sign is notice that (unlicensed) weapons are not allowed, so it is a violation of 30.05 and a misdemeanor. Don't care what the sign states the penalty is, as that does not make the sign invalid as there is no legally defined specific verbiage requirements for the TABC signs, just a general requirement.

It sounds like you're saying it's illegal to have a Kershaw Blur or a similar pocket knife at HEB if they sell beer and wine and post a TABC blue sign. I don't think that's correct.

Image
Give peace a chance.

I'll cover you in case it doesn't work out.

User avatar

ScottDLS
Senior Member
Posts: 3985
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 1:04 am
Location: DFW Area, TX

Re: How to check if a premise is 51%?

Postby ScottDLS » Mon Jan 01, 2018 3:29 pm

Keith B wrote:
Nutcracker wrote:
Whether they really are 51% or not, the TABC license determines if it's legal for the good guys to carry there. Well, legal to carry handguns, since carrying a rifle or a shotgun is not a crime in 51% establishments. So that's what I do.


I sure hope you are not carrying a rifle or shotgun into a 51% location, as that is a felony to carry a weapon (not handgun) into one.

Image

Also, carrying an unlicensed weapon, meaning one that you can't get a license to carry (handgun), in a non-51% location is also a felony per TABC, but really it's a crime if they allow you to stay on premise with one.

Image


No actually it’s not illegal to carry a concealed rifle into a 51% location. It’s against tabc rules for the bar, but not illegal.
4/13/1996 Completed CHL Class, 4/16/1996 Fingerprints, Affidavits, and Application Mailed, 10/4/1996 Received CHL, renewed 1998, 2002, 2006, 2011, 2016...). "ATF... Uhhh...heh...heh....Alcohol, tobacco, and GUNS!! Cool!!!!"

User avatar

Keith B
Moderator
Posts: 17619
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2007 3:29 pm

Re: How to check if a premise is 51%?

Postby Keith B » Mon Jan 01, 2018 5:07 pm

ScottDLS wrote:
Keith B wrote:
Nutcracker wrote:
Whether they really are 51% or not, the TABC license determines if it's legal for the good guys to carry there. Well, legal to carry handguns, since carrying a rifle or a shotgun is not a crime in 51% establishments. So that's what I do.


I sure hope you are not carrying a rifle or shotgun into a 51% location, as that is a felony to carry a weapon (not handgun) into one.

Image

Also, carrying an unlicensed weapon, meaning one that you can't get a license to carry (handgun), in a non-51% location is also a felony per TABC, but really it's a crime if they allow you to stay on premise with one.

Image


No actually it’s not illegal to carry a concealed rifle into a 51% location. It’s against tabc rules for the bar, but not illegal.


If there is notice, then it would be a 30,05 violation.
Keith
Texas LTC Instructor, Missouri CCW Instructor, NRA Certified Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun Instructor and RSO, NRA Life Member

Psalm 82:3-4

User avatar

Keith B
Moderator
Posts: 17619
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2007 3:29 pm

Re: How to check if a premise is 51%?

Postby Keith B » Mon Jan 01, 2018 5:10 pm

bigtek wrote:
Keith B wrote:
spectre wrote:The signs don't say weapons aren't allowed. They say the unlicensed possession of a weapon is a felony.

Obviously, the signs don't apply to an AR15, a Kershaw Blur, or a small OC canister. Why? Because carrying those weapons in that location isn't a felony.

P.S. I'm in Texas.


A rifle (firearm) is an unlicensed weapon, as is a Kershaw Blur (knife). A small OC canister is not a weapon as it is specifically exempted in TPC 46.01(14):
(14) "Chemical dispensing device" means a device, other than a small chemical dispenser sold commercially for personal protection, that is designed, made, or adapted for the purpose of dispensing a substance capable of causing an adverse psychological or physiological effect on a human being.


And while not a felony, the sign is notice that (unlicensed) weapons are not allowed, so it is a violation of 30.05 and a misdemeanor. Don't care what the sign states the penalty is, as that does not make the sign invalid as there is no legally defined specific verbiage requirements for the TABC signs, just a general requirement.

It sounds like you're saying it's illegal to have a Kershaw Blur or a similar pocket knife at HEB if they sell beer and wine and post a TABC blue sign. I don't think that's correct.

Image


I am saying it is a 30.05 violation if the sign says 'weapon'. if it says 'handgun', then it would not be a violation.
Keith
Texas LTC Instructor, Missouri CCW Instructor, NRA Certified Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun Instructor and RSO, NRA Life Member

Psalm 82:3-4

User avatar

ScottDLS
Senior Member
Posts: 3985
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 1:04 am
Location: DFW Area, TX

Re: How to check if a premise is 51%?

Postby ScottDLS » Mon Jan 01, 2018 6:45 pm

Keith B wrote:
ScottDLS wrote:
Keith B wrote:
Nutcracker wrote:
Whether they really are 51% or not, the TABC license determines if it's legal for the good guys to carry there. Well, legal to carry handguns, since carrying a rifle or a shotgun is not a crime in 51% establishments. So that's what I do.


I sure hope you are not carrying a rifle or shotgun into a 51% location, as that is a felony to carry a weapon (not handgun) into one.

Image

Also, carrying an unlicensed weapon, meaning one that you can't get a license to carry (handgun), in a non-51% location is also a felony per TABC, but really it's a crime if they allow you to stay on premise with one.

Image


No actually it’s not illegal to carry a concealed rifle into a 51% location. It’s against tabc rules for the bar, but not illegal.


If there is notice, then it would be a 30,05 violation.


A TABC blue notice or a 51% sign would hardly seem to qualify as notice. I don’t see anything in them prohibiting your entry. The are simply making note of the law regarding handguns. Weapon has a specific definition in PC chapter 46 and it doesn’t include long guns.
4/13/1996 Completed CHL Class, 4/16/1996 Fingerprints, Affidavits, and Application Mailed, 10/4/1996 Received CHL, renewed 1998, 2002, 2006, 2011, 2016...). "ATF... Uhhh...heh...heh....Alcohol, tobacco, and GUNS!! Cool!!!!"


Return to “General Texas CHL Discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 6 guests