Definition of "Chemically Dependent"

[PeanutsAndSoap]

I actually had a google search help me find this website...Great place!

I did have one main question that worried me when reading over the requirements. I am curious what Texas' definition of "chemically dependent" is. I read a post that was on a related topic here on this forum, but the OP had submitted that he no longer takes medication.

I am currently diagnosed with Bi-polar disorder. I take two different forms of medication daily to control this, one of which is a controlled substance, but I have prescriptions for these medicines from my doctor. Do these knock me out of the loop, and count me as "chemically dependent"?

I'd hate to send in the fee and everything else and lose my "non-refundable" payment for something that I knew in advance.

Any responses, or direction on who I could ask would be greatly appreciated. I have, nor do I ever see myself being a violent person. I have no criminal record, or any write-offs from this diagnosis.

Thank you for your time and responses.

-Jon

[Kythas]

The law itself states a chemically dependent person is:

(c) An individual who has been convicted two times within the 10-year period preceding the date on which the person applies for a license of an offense of the grade of Class B misdemeanor or greater that involves the use of alcohol or a controlled substance as a statutory element of the offense is a chemically dependent person for purposes of this section and is not qualified to receive a license under this subchapter. This subsection does not preclude the disqualification of an individual for being a chemically dependent person if other evidence exists to show that the person is a chemically dependent person.

What may get you is the portion regarding exercising sound judgement. The law states:

(d) For purposes of Subsection (a)(7), a person is incapable of exercising sound judgment with respect to the proper use and storage of a handgun if the person:
(1) has been diagnosed by a licensed physician as suffering from a psychiatric disorder or condition that causes or is likely to cause substantial impairment in judgment, mood, perception, impulse control, or intellectual ability;
(2) suffers from a psychiatric disorder or condition described by Subdivision (1) that:
(A) is in remission but is reasonably likely to redevelop at a future time; or
(B) requires continuous medical treatment to avoid redevelopment;

I am well acquainted with bi-polar disorder as both my ex-wife and my sister suffer from it. Since you have it, and it requires continuous medical treatment to avoid redevelopment, you may be disqualified. You should check with the DPS to see if bi-polar disorder is a condition they believe fits this definition.

[XDSConcealer]

I'm not a psychologist so take my comment with a grain of salt.

I commend you for sharing this on an open forum but I would think that you would be excluded from being allowed to get a CHL. As part of the background check your medications would be brought up. Any controlled substance that is given with a prescription is recorded as mandatory measure. When the FBI administers the background check this undoubtedly would come up as part of the search. I would imagine the nature of the drugs and the purpose of the medication would exclude you from obtaining your license.

[Crossfire]

Bipolar disorder, and daily medication for a psychiatric disorder are both disqualifiers for the CHL

(d) For purposes of Subsection (a)(7), a person is incapable of exercising sound judgment with respect to the proper use and storage of a handgun if the person:
(1) has been diagnosed by a licensed physician as suffering from a psychiatric disorder or condition that causes or is likely to cause substantial impairment in judgment, mood, perception, impulse control, or intellectual ability;
(2) suffers from a psychiatric disorder or condition described by Subdivision (1) that:
(A) is in remission but is reasonably likely to redevelop at a future time; or
(B) requires continuous medical treatment to avoid redevelopment;
(3) has been diagnosed by a licensed physician, determined by a review board or similar authority, or declared by a court to be incompetent to manage the person's own affairs; or
(4) has entered in a criminal proceeding a plea of not guilty by reason of insanity.
(e) The following constitutes evidence that a person has a psychiatric disorder or condition described by Subsection (d)(1):
(1) involuntary psychiatric hospitalization;
(2) psychiatric hospitalization;
(3) inpatient or residential substance abuse treatment in the preceding five-year period;
(4) diagnosis in the preceding five-year period by a licensed physician that the person is dependent on alcohol, a controlled substance, or a similar substance; or
(5) diagnosis at any time by a licensed physician that the person suffers or has suffered from a psychiatric disorder or condition consisting of or relating to:
(A) schizophrenia or delusional disorder;
(B) bipolar disorder;
(C) chronic dementia, whether caused by illness, brain defect, or brain injury;

[Beiruty]

How about mild anti-depressant, that millions Texans are RXed?

[WildBill]

How about mild anti-depressant, that millions Texans are RXed?

Nope. As Crossfire posted, the issue isn't chemical dependency, it's the specific type of diagnosed mental illness, i.e. bipolar, and that it requires continuous treatment.

[WildBill]

I'm not a psychologist so take my comment with a grain of salt.
As part of the background check your medications would be brought up. Any controlled substance that is given with a prescription is recorded as mandatory measure.

Medications do not show up in a background check for CHL. Federal law prohibits revealing certain information in medical files. When dispensing controlled substances, doctors and pharmacies must keep certain records, but they are not in any federal database. Many medicines prescribed for the treatment of mental illnesses are not controlled substances.

[XDSConcealer]

WildBill, I disagree with you somewhat here. I'm not sure what the medications are to treat Bi-Polar disorder but I would imagine they would be a controlled substance. Additionally, there are plenty of medications that are tracked by the government based on their drug type. In my youth I was prescribed Adderall for ADD. This was a special prescription pad that my doctor filled out and the doctor indicated that because Adderall is considered a controlled substance (it's amphetamines) they have to report it to the federal government (not my speculation, this is what the doctor told me). This was even before the government required you to swipe your ID if you wanted some over the counter medications that contained ephedrine.

Now, I haven't had an Adderall prescription filled in over a decade but I can't believe for a second that the tracking of these medications has been lifted in that time. Based on the current intrusion of our government I would think the recording of these medications is even more severe, especially now that so much of the databases are electronic now.

Perhaps I'm wrong but it stands to reason that with certain medications there is a lot of regulation and recording of who is taking what.

[recaffeination]

Federal law prohibits revealing certain information in medical files.

The law prohibits releasing certain information without consent so read the forms before you sign.

[n5wd]

Perhaps I'm wrong but it stands to reason that with certain medications there is a lot of regulation and recording of who is taking what.

Physicians and others who can, by law, prescribe Schedule drugs (narcotics, amphetamines, etc.) are issued a DEA and a DPS identifier. Both agencies receive statistical information about who is picking up their prescriptions at the druggist and the physician who is the prescriber, but as far as I know that information is not cross-referenced to any criminal justice information so it should not show up on either an NICS or CCH (computerized criminal history - which is what I used to generate for officers for investigational purposes), which is what DPS does to verify that you're a good guy with no record. The FBI isn't doing any security clearance checking on you - that's much more intensive than the CCH required for a CHL.

[The Annoyed Man]

Perhaps I'm wrong but it stands to reason that with certain medications there is a lot of regulation and recording of who is taking what.

Physicians and others who can, by law, prescribe Schedule drugs (narcotics, amphetamines, etc.) are issued a DEA and a DPS identifier. Both agencies receive statistical information about who is picking up their prescriptions at the druggist and the physician who is the prescriber, but as far as I know that information is not cross-referenced to any criminal justice information so it should not show up on either an NICS or CCH (computerized criminal history - which is what I used to generate for officers for investigational purposes), which is what DPS does to verify that you're a good guy with no record. The FBI isn't doing any security clearance checking on you - that's much more intensive than the CCH required for a CHL.

I have numerous hydrocodone prescription since about 2000 due to my back problems. I had my back surgery in 2004, and I have needed to take at least one dose per day, sometimes two, since well before I ever applied for my first CHL in 2007. Whatever record exists with regard to my access to this medication (which take each time in combination with a prescription strength non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drug) is well established by now. It did not prevent me from getting my first CHL, and it hasn't been an issue so far with my renewal (although my current status is still "Background Check: Under review"). So far, the only delays in the process have been entirely attributable to my own lack of attention to detail.......first I lost my CHL 100 and had to ask Crossfire for another copy; then I forgot to sign it before sending it in, and they returned it to me for signature. I got that sent back to them right away, but still.......I'm a eejit.

But the point is....besides me being an eejit....is that not all controlled substances will disqualify you. The difference is that I do not take these drugs to control my perception of reality, but rather to control physical pain due to a quantifiable injury. It seems to me like the point of the law is supposed to be that the state does not want to issue a carry license to a person who is not able to correctly perceive reality and react to it appropriately without the aid of medication. My longtime friend and former employer was also bipolar. He had been diagnosed in high school and had led a well-organized and successful life with his illness under control by medication. He owned and operated a small business, was married, and had two great kids. In short, you would think he had a stable life. He had also been an All American athlete when he was in college (long distance swimmer), and he had always kept himself in extraordinary condition. But, he hated the way the medications made him feel. In 2007, after we had moved the business here from SoCal a year before, my boss began to show obvious signs of depression and mood swings. It turned out he was self-medicating by trying to regulate his dosage on his own, instead of following the doctor's prescribed dose. He spiraled in, and in late September 2007, he hung himself.

Although I take a pretty expansive view of gun rights, I can see, and know from my own experience with my friend, why the state might have a vested interest in not issuing a CHL to someone who has it within their ability to start self-medicating like my friend did, and to begin altering their own perception of reality accordingly.

It is a sensitive issue, and I offer the above with as much respect as I can. PeanutsAndSoap, you're in a tough spot, and you have my sympathy. You might also want to investigate alternative means of legally arming yourself in case you cannot follow through on CHL, if you indeed feel the need to do so.

Also, another thing occurs to me here....CHL implies being able to purchase and own a firearm. When you buy a gun, you have to fill out a form 4473. One of the questions you must be able to answer in the negative is:

"f. Have you ever been adjudicated mentally defective (which includes having been adjudicated incompetent to manage your own affairs) or have you ever been committed to a mental institution?"

I don't know if this affects you or not (you haven't addressed that here), but it is certainly something worth looking at to make sure you qualify.

[WildBill]

WildBill, I disagree with you somewhat here. I'm not sure what the medications are to treat Bi-Polar disorder but I would imagine they would be a controlled substance.

Many times a physician will prescribe several medications to treat a certain medical conditions, so without knowing specific names, I can't tell you want is controlled and what is not. If you know the specific name and want to look it up there is a published list of controlled substances issued by the FDA and DEA. As n5wd stated these are called "Schedule drugs".

Many people are confused by the term "controlled substance." "Controlled substance" does not have the same legal meaning as a "prescription medication". Controlled substances are usually those drugs/chemicals/medications that have a potential for dependency or abuse. Most prescription medicines, even those used to treat mental disorders are not controlled substances. Even, if you take a controlled substance under a doctor's order doesn't mean you are chemically dependent.

[WildBill]

WildBill, I disagree with you somewhat here. I'm not sure what the medications are to treat Bi-Polar disorder but I would imagine they would be a controlled substance.

Many times a physician will prescribe several medications to treat a certain medical conditions, so without knowing specific names, I can't tell you want is controlled and what is not. If you know the specific name and want to look it up there is a published list of controlled substances issued by the FDA and DEA. As n5wd stated these are called "Schedule drugs". Controlled substances are classified by "schedule" with Schedule I having the most control to Schedule V having the least restrictions.

Many people are confused by the term "controlled substance." "Controlled substance" does not have the same legal meaning as a "prescription medication". Controlled substances are usually those drugs/chemicals/medications that have a potential for dependency or abuse. Most prescription medicines, even those used to treat mental disorders are not controlled substances. Even, if you take a controlled substance under a doctor's order doesn't mean you are chemically dependent.

As I stated in my earlier post, IMO the denial of a CHL would be based on the specific diagnosed illness [bi-polar] and the long term medical treatment, not type of medicines used to treat the illness.

Also note that the part of the statute quoted by Crossfire says "continous medical treatment" and does not specifically state anything about the use of prescription drugs. Medical treatment does not always involve prescribing medicines.

[mlawler]

Nearly 20 yrs as a Pharmacy Technician here.

Not all 'controlled substances' are 'narcotics.' The term narcotic generally refers to chemicals with profound mind altering properties usually made from the opiate family or synthisized derivitives. Other medications can be labeled controlled substances due to the bodies dependency on them for proper function but not necessarily be a narcotic. Medications are rated on a scale from 1 to 5 based on their likelyhood of physical and/or psycological dependency. Schedule 1 drugs are the illegal substances with no recognized medical uses (don't open the marijuana argument!!) and a high potential of abuse. Schedules 2 to 5 rank products on their abuse potential with the State of Texas using a specially issued & serialized script pad and tighter restrictions on Sched 2 ADD amphetamines.

May not help the OP, but just wanted to set the record straight.

[mlawler]

Personnaly, I think the term "chemically dependent" is too broad.
I know a lot of women who manage the physical/emotional effects of menopause with hormone replacements...are they 'chemically dependent?'
I take blood pressure medication so I don't stroke out...am I 'chemically dependent??'
What about the caffeine & nicotine addicts??

Over on another board I frequent, there's a lot of talk about the Federal government wanting to deny firearms ownership & concealed carry permits to users of Medical Marijuana in the states that have it.