Daycare and Pre-Schools

CHL discussions that do not fit into more specific topics

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Keith B
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Re: Daycare and Pre-Schools

Postby Keith B » Wed Mar 05, 2014 10:41 am

Scott_09 wrote:Hello everyone. Is there anyone experience with Phoenix preschool? Actually, I am going to enroll my 4 years kids with a local school and wondering if this rule applies to phoenix kindergartens or not.

Phoenix appears to be part of All Saints Episcopal parochial school, so while a non-accredited preschool would not be off limits the other portion being a school would make it CHL persona non grata.
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Re: Daycare and Pre-Schools

Postby MotherBear » Wed Mar 05, 2014 10:52 am

tommyg wrote:I would think twice before carry in a day care someone might freak out and call the cops and make a bad scene


I carry at preschool story time at the library. I carry teaching preschool Sunday school at my church. I carry at the pediatrician's office. I carry at the children's museum. As of yet, no one has freaked out and called the cops and made a bad scene... maybe 'cause it's concealed. ;)

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Re: Daycare and Pre-Schools

Postby scottmeador » Wed Mar 05, 2014 4:11 pm

Ok, how about a pre-school sponsored by a non-posted parochial entity?


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Re: Daycare and Pre-Schools

Postby cb1000rider » Wed Mar 05, 2014 6:03 pm

Keith B wrote:Daycare's are not schools. Pre-school is also not a school. There is not case law that defines exactly what a school is, but it is generally believed to be a public school that is accredited by the Texas Education Agency or a private school that is ceritifed by the Texas Private School Accreditation Commission.


I completely agree with Keith that those accreditation mean that those facilities are school.
What I don't necessarily agree with is that a pre-school doesn't fit the definition of school. The law is often very specific about definitions (such as 30.06), but is fairly vague when it comes to "school". Until they establish case law on it, I'm going to treat all pre-schools like schools.... That's just my conservative cover-my-rear view.

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Re: Daycare and Pre-Schools

Postby C-dub » Wed Mar 05, 2014 9:10 pm

scottmeador wrote:Ok, how about a pre-school sponsored by a non-posted parochial entity?

If the pre-school is in the same building as an accredited school or one that meets the state's guidelines as a school then it doesn't matter if it is posted or not. A CHLee is still not allowed to carry in there.
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Re: Daycare and Pre-Schools

Postby jbarn » Wed Mar 05, 2014 9:23 pm

SewTexas wrote:the general understanding seems to be that if you work at one you can not carry, but if you are a parent picking up or dropping off your child, you can, so long as it's not posted. that's what we discussed when someone who worked at one did some research a year or so ago.


The law does not make that distinction.
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Re: Daycare and Pre-Schools

Postby jbarn » Wed Mar 05, 2014 9:25 pm

tommyg wrote:I would think twice before carry in a day care someone might freak out and call the cops and make a bad scene



And? Might one say that about the mall?
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Re: Daycare and Pre-Schools

Postby Rrash » Thu Mar 06, 2014 12:24 pm

cb1000rider wrote:
Keith B wrote:Daycare's are not schools. Pre-school is also not a school. There is not case law that defines exactly what a school is, but it is generally believed to be a public school that is accredited by the Texas Education Agency or a private school that is ceritifed by the Texas Private School Accreditation Commission.


I completely agree with Keith that those accreditation mean that those facilities are school.
What I don't necessarily agree with is that a pre-school doesn't fit the definition of school. The law is often very specific about definitions (such as 30.06), but is fairly vague when it comes to "school". Until they establish case law on it, I'm going to treat all pre-schools like schools.... That's just my conservative cover-my-rear view.


Most pre-schools have kindergarden and require the same immunizations, paperwork, and documentation you would need to attend an accredited elementary school. A prosecutor could make a convincing argument and a jury would find it reasonable to consider a pre-school faucility an educational institution - accredited or not. Until they clarify or change the law to allow CHL's to carry in schools, I wouldn't risk it. Daycares, on the other hand, one could reasonably argue are not a school/educational institution. These are my thoughts, anyway.

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Re: Daycare and Pre-Schools

Postby Dragonfighter » Thu Mar 06, 2014 1:17 pm

jbarn wrote:
SewTexas wrote:the general understanding seems to be that if you work at one you can not carry, but if you are a parent picking up or dropping off your child, you can, so long as it's not posted. that's what we discussed when someone who worked at one did some research a year or so ago.


The law does not make that distinction.


IIRC, that conversation hinged on CPS and similar regulations. I seem to recall that foster care and its onerous regulations wormed its way into the conversation. I can't remember the rules and codes cited but the distinction was carrying to enter vs. carrying while in charge of the children. Remember, it's for the children! :roll:
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Re: Daycare and Pre-Schools

Postby jbarn » Thu Mar 06, 2014 9:55 pm

Dragonfighter wrote:
jbarn wrote:
SewTexas wrote:the general understanding seems to be that if you work at one you can not carry, but if you are a parent picking up or dropping off your child, you can, so long as it's not posted. that's what we discussed when someone who worked at one did some research a year or so ago.


The law does not make that distinction.


IIRC, that conversation hinged on CPS and similar regulations. I seem to recall that foster care and its onerous regulations wormed its way into the conversation. I can't remember the rules and codes cited but the distinction was carrying to enter vs. carrying while in charge of the children. Remember, it's for the children! :roll:


I don't see a penal code violation there. If there is some other code I am interested. I have students who work in day care.
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Re: Daycare and Pre-Schools

Postby LAD » Mon Feb 22, 2016 3:55 pm

I was not happy with the 30.06 sign posted at my daycare center and called the owner. Found out that Texas law and the licensing board have different rules. Under Texas law, my understanding is that a CHL can conceal carry (since they can't see it) when picking up the child from a daycare center, NOT a school (schools are off limits).
However, after calling the licensing board, here is what they state in their rules - which would take precedent since they can revoke the daycare license-: https://www.dfps.state.tx.us/documents/ ... enters.pdf
§746.3707 Are firearms or other weapons allowed at my child-care center?
Subchapter S, Safety Practices
Division 1, Safety Precautions
September 2003
(a) Law enforcement officials who are trained and certified to carry a firearm on duty
may have firearms or ammunition on the premises of the child-care center.
High
(b) For all other persons, firearms, hunting knives, bows and arrows, and other
weapons are prohibited on the premises of the child-care center, unless the
child-care center is also your residence.
(c) Firearms, hunting knives, bows and arrows, and other weapons kept on the
premises of a child-care center located in your home must remain in a locked
cabinet inaccessible to children during all hours of operation.
(d) Ammunition must be kept in a separate locked cabinet and inaccessible to
children during all hours of operation.

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Re: Daycare and Pre-Schools

Postby AJSully421 » Mon Feb 22, 2016 4:22 pm

This needs to be addressed in 2017.

"For the purposes of this section, an educational institution is one that is accredited by the TEA or blah, blah, blah"

That would fix the issue of day cares, and also deal with our fine feathered friends at the various zoos who declare that they are an educational institution to infringe on the most law abiding citizen's rights.
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Re: Daycare and Pre-Schools

Postby chasfm11 » Mon Feb 22, 2016 5:23 pm

LAD wrote:I was not happy with the 30.06 sign posted at my daycare center and called the owner. Found out that Texas law and the licensing board have different rules. Under Texas law, my understanding is that a CHL can conceal carry (since they can't see it) when picking up the child from a daycare center, NOT a school (schools are off limits).
However, after calling the licensing board, here is what they state in their rules - which would take precedent since they can revoke the daycare license-: https://www.dfps.state.tx.us/documents/ ... enters.pdf
§746.3707 Are firearms or other weapons allowed at my child-care center?
Subchapter S, Safety Practices
Division 1, Safety Precautions
September 2003
(a) Law enforcement officials who are trained and certified to carry a firearm on duty
may have firearms or ammunition on the premises of the child-care center.
High
(b) For all other persons, firearms, hunting knives, bows and arrows, and other
weapons are prohibited on the premises of the child-care center, unless the
child-care center is also your residence.
(c) Firearms, hunting knives, bows and arrows, and other weapons kept on the
premises of a child-care center located in your home must remain in a locked
cabinet inaccessible to children during all hours of operation.
(d) Ammunition must be kept in a separate locked cabinet and inaccessible to
children during all hours of operation.


I've been carefully watching the day cares in my area. I've not seen any new signs. I'm interested because Childcare Licesinng (CCL) a part of Family and Protective Services (FPS) sent out an email to our church which has a CCL regulated daycare. They state specifically that nothing has changed - they have ALWAYS prohibited CC in their licensed facilities. The email goes through a Q&A which talks about firearms relative to child care housed in a private home. CC is prohibited there, too. They cite the Administrative Code, not the TPC as their authority. I think it is another case where the hoopla over open carry opened their eyes about CC because they included the 30.06, 30.07 language for signs, though they say that they do not require signs. Our church has decided to prohibit OC via written notice. I'm not sure how that is going to fly with CCL. Our parent handbook, which the parents must sign, now includes a statement saying OC and CC are prohibited.
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Re: Daycare and Pre-Schools

Postby Liberty » Thu Jun 08, 2017 5:30 am

john23 wrote:
AJSully421 wrote:This needs to be addressed in 2017.

"For the purposes of this section, an Calgary online Preschool educational institution is one that is accredited by the TEA or blah, blah, blah"

That would fix the issue of day cares, and also deal with our fine feathered friends at the various zoos who declare that they are an educational institution to infringe on the most law abiding citizen's rights.



Hello,

Can you tell me which type of preschools are good for kids??


Staying home with Mom has a pretty good track record.
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Re: Daycare and Pre-Schools

Postby RogueUSMC » Thu Jun 08, 2017 8:09 am

Liberty wrote:
john23 wrote:
AJSully421 wrote:This needs to be addressed in 2017.

"For the purposes of this section, an Calgary online Preschool educational institution is one that is accredited by the TEA or blah, blah, blah"

That would fix the issue of day cares, and also deal with our fine feathered friends at the various zoos who declare that they are an educational institution to infringe on the most law abiding citizen's rights.



Hello,

Can you tell me which type of preschools are good for kids??


Staying home with Mom has a pretty good track record.

Depends on the mom...
A man will fight harder for his interests than for his rights.
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