Confiscated CHL Question

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c.com
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Confiscated CHL Question

Postby c.com » Fri Mar 21, 2014 12:35 am

First off, my apologies if this has already been posted and addressed - I did some searching and did not find anything related to my questions.

Long story short, I was charged with a Class B (arrested, but have not been formally charged or arraigned yet) several months ago. I was carrying at the time. The agency confiscated my CHL, but I did get my weapon back.

Reading through the Texas statutes, specifically pertaining to revocation, there is no mention of what I was arrested for (but I do know that a Class B conviction is automatic revocation).

1. Was the officer in the right to confiscate my license?
2. Due to no conviction (or even a charge), can I request that the agency give me back my license?

Any information you guys with more knowledge can provide me would be awesome and greatly appreciated.

Thanks.
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gigag04
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Re: Confiscated CHL Question

Postby gigag04 » Fri Mar 21, 2014 1:43 am

1. Yes

2. How have you not been charged? Surely you were arrested for something.
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infoman
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Re: Confiscated CHL Question

Postby infoman » Fri Mar 21, 2014 2:33 am

#2. You cannot have a pending charge & keep your CHL at the same time. You have to wait until you're found not guilty. It's a 7 year penalty too if you are either found guilty or take deferred adjudication.

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Jumping Frog
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Re: Confiscated CHL Question

Postby Jumping Frog » Fri Mar 21, 2014 5:53 am

infoman wrote:#2. You cannot have a pending charge & keep your CHL at the same time. You have to wait until you're found not guilty. It's a 7 year penalty too if you are either found guilty or take deferred adjudication.

That is not quite accurate.

A pending or possible charge is not a valid reason for suspension or revocation. Being actually charged is a valid reason for suspension, and being actually convicted is a valid reason for revocation..

See GC §411.187: SUSPENSION OF LICENSE and GC §411.186: REVOCATION.

Most likely the officer seized the CHL as evidence.

For a formal suspension:

GC § 411.187(b) wrote:If a peace officer believes a reason listed in Subsection (a) to suspend a license exists, the officer shall prepare an affidavit on a form provided by the department stating the reason for the suspension of the license and giving the department all of the information available to the officer at the time of the preparation of the form. The officer shall attach the officer's reports relating to the license holder to the form and send the form and the attachments to the appropriate division of the department at its Austin headquarters not later than the fifth working day after the date the form is prepared. The officer shall send a copy of the form and the attachments to the license holder. If the license holder has not surrendered the license or the license was not seized as evidence, the license holder shall surrender the license to the appropriate division of the department not later than the 10th day after the date the license holder receives the notice of suspension from the department unless the license holder requests a hearing from the department. The license holder may request that the justice court in the justice court precinct in which the license holder resides review the suspension as provided by Section 411.180. If a request is made for the justice court to review the suspension and hold a hearing, the license holder shall surrender the license on the date an order of suspension is entered by the justice court.


From a practical perspective, one needs the physical license with you to carry legally. If the license was seized as evidence, then one cannot carry anyway. The DA has a number of months available before bringing formal charges, so this matter is not done until the DA either decides not to charge the OP or brings charges. If the OP is not charged, the license should be returned. If the OP is charged, then the license will be formally suspended. If the OP is actually convicted, then the license will be revoked.
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Re: Confiscated CHL Question

Postby jbarn » Fri Mar 21, 2014 7:20 am

Jumping Frog wrote:
infoman wrote:#2. You cannot have a pending charge & keep your CHL at the same time. You have to wait until you're found not guilty. It's a 7 year penalty too if you are either found guilty or take deferred adjudication.

That is not quite accurate.

A pending or possible charge is not a valid reason for suspension or revocation. Being actually charged is a valid reason for suspension, and being actually convicted is a valid reason for revocation..

See GC §411.187: SUSPENSION OF LICENSE and GC §411.186: REVOCATION.

Most likely the officer seized the CHL as evidence.

For a formal suspension:

GC § 411.187(b) wrote:If a peace officer believes a reason listed in Subsection (a) to suspend a license exists, the officer shall prepare an affidavit on a form provided by the department stating the reason for the suspension of the license and giving the department all of the information available to the officer at the time of the preparation of the form. The officer shall attach the officer's reports relating to the license holder to the form and send the form and the attachments to the appropriate division of the department at its Austin headquarters not later than the fifth working day after the date the form is prepared. The officer shall send a copy of the form and the attachments to the license holder. If the license holder has not surrendered the license or the license was not seized as evidence, the license holder shall surrender the license to the appropriate division of the department not later than the 10th day after the date the license holder receives the notice of suspension from the department unless the license holder requests a hearing from the department. The license holder may request that the justice court in the justice court precinct in which the license holder resides review the suspension as provided by Section 411.180. If a request is made for the justice court to review the suspension and hold a hearing, the license holder shall surrender the license on the date an order of suspension is entered by the justice court.


From a practical perspective, one needs the physical license with you to carry legally. If the license was seized as evidence, then one cannot carry anyway. The DA has a number of months available before bringing formal charges, so this matter is not done until the DA either decides not to charge the OP or brings charges. If the OP is not charged, the license should be returned. If the OP is charged, then the license will be formally suspended. If the OP is actually convicted, then the license will be revoked.


Yeah, you missed this section :cheers2:

Texas Government Code
Sec. 411.206. SEIZURE OF HANDGUN AND LICENSE. (a) If a peace officer arrests and takes into custody a license holder who is carrying a handgun under the authority of this subchapter, the officer shall seize the license holder's handgun and license as evidence.
(b) The provisions of Article 18.19, Code of Criminal Procedure, relating to the disposition of weapons seized in connection with criminal offenses, apply to a handgun seized under this subsection.
(c) Any judgment of conviction entered by any court for an offense under Section 46.035, Penal Code, must contain the handgun license number of the convicted license holder. A certified copy of the judgment is conclusive and sufficient evidence to justify revocation of a license under Section 411.186(a)(4).


Once the case is resolved a resolution on the license will be self evident.
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jbarn
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Re: Confiscated CHL Question

Postby jbarn » Fri Mar 21, 2014 7:25 am

c.com wrote:First off, my apologies if this has already been posted and addressed - I did some searching and did not find anything related to my questions.

Long story short, I was charged with a Class B (arrested, but have not been formally charged or arraigned yet) several months ago. I was carrying at the time. The agency confiscated my CHL, but I did get my weapon back.

Reading through the Texas statutes, specifically pertaining to revocation, there is no mention of what I was arrested for (but I do know that a Class B conviction is automatic revocation).

1. Was the officer in the right to confiscate my license?
He was required to under chapter 411 of the Government Code.
2. Due to no conviction (or even a charge), can I request that the agency give me back my license?
Sure, but it will not be returned until and unless you are acquitted or the charges dismissed.
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Jumping Frog
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Re: Confiscated CHL Question

Postby Jumping Frog » Fri Mar 21, 2014 7:26 am

I believe I said the license was probably seized as evidence, rather than formally suspended.

Thanks for pointing out the seizure upon arrest is part of the statutes. :tiphat:
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Re: Confiscated CHL Question

Postby Tic Tac » Fri Mar 21, 2014 1:00 pm

Guilty until proven innocent?

Stories like this make me happy I have a Utah license.

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Keith B
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Re: Confiscated CHL Question

Postby Keith B » Fri Mar 21, 2014 1:28 pm

Tic Tac wrote:Guilty until proven innocent?

Stories like this make me happy I have a Utah license.


Your Utah license can be suspended as well pending disposition. Here are the rules

Utah Concealed Firearm Permit Denial, Suspension and/or Revocation Criteria

Class C and B Misdemeanors……………………………………………………………….3 years

Class A Misdemeanors……………………………………………………………………...5 years

(traffic offenses other than DUI do not apply i.e. speeding, no insurance, etc.)

DUI (alcohol related reckless or similar conviction)……..………………………………...6 years

Juvenile felony conviction (non violent)……………………………………………………7 years

Juvenile felony conviction (violent, crimes against person)……………………..…...10 years

Felony conviction…………………………………………………………………….…….Lifetime
(unless dismissed, reduced to a misdemeanor or expunged)

Domestic Violence…………………………………………………………………………Lifetime
(unless dismissed, reduced to an infraction or expunged)

Protective Orders………………………………………………………………………..…Lifetime
(unless removed, must be a family member or cohabitate) (not a neighbor, friend, etc.)

Mentally Incompetent (adjudicated by a state or federal court……………….…...Lifetime
(unless withdrawn or reversed)

Danger to self or other (threat of or attempt of suicide, with or without an arrest or conviction)...Revocation
(time frame based on the CFP Boards decision)

Past pattern of violent behavior……………………………………………..…..…Revocation
(time frame based on the CFP Boards decision

ALL TIME FRAMES START FROM THE DATE THE CASE IS CLOSED. THIS INCLUDES PROBATION, FINES, COURT IMPOSED ACTIONS, ETC.

Reason for suspension:

Charged with a crime of violence

Has an outstanding warrant

Indictment on a felony

Moral Turpitude disqualifiers (includes but not limited to): theft, fraud, tax evasion, issuing bad checks, interference with a police officer, fleeing, resisting arrest, failure to obey police, obstruction of justice, wildlife violations involving a weapon, bribery, perjury, extortion, arson, criminal mischief, falsifying government records, forgery, receiving stolen property, firearms violations, burglary, vandalism and kidnapping

The following crimes are also disqualifiers:
Unlawful sexual conduct, pornographic and harmful material, offenses involving the use of alcohol (i.e. illegal use or consumption, etc.) offenses involving the use of narcotics

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Jumping Frog
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Re: Confiscated CHL Question

Postby Jumping Frog » Fri Mar 21, 2014 3:54 pm

Tic Tac wrote:Guilty until proven innocent?

Stories like this make me happy I have a Utah license.

If you are arrested and provide your UT license as justification for being armed, that license can be seized as evidence just as easily as a Texas license.
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Re: Confiscated CHL Question

Postby gigag04 » Fri Mar 21, 2014 4:40 pm

Tic Tac wrote:Guilty until proven innocent?

Stories like this make me happy I have a Utah license.

Can you point out the verdict? I missed it.
Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work. - Thomas Edison


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Re: Confiscated CHL Question

Postby Shoot Straight » Fri Mar 21, 2014 5:23 pm

gigag04 wrote:
Tic Tac wrote:Guilty until proven innocent?

Stories like this make me happy I have a Utah license.

Can you point out the verdict? I missed it.

I missed it too but somehow it seems the OP may not carry (de facto guilty) even though there's no guilty verdict.
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Re: Confiscated CHL Question

Postby BLG » Sat Mar 22, 2014 7:52 pm

It is illegal to carry a handgun in Texas without permission (license). If you do not have a permission slip, it is illegal for you to carry a handgun.

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Re: Confiscated CHL Question

Postby sammeow » Tue Mar 25, 2014 3:40 am

:iagree:
But he can carry in the car as long as it's concealed.
Just gotta leave it in the vehicle , not keeping it on him.

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Re: Confiscated CHL Question

Postby texanjoker » Wed Mar 26, 2014 5:55 pm

sammeow wrote::iagree:
But he can carry in the car as long as it's concealed.
Just gotta leave it in the vehicle , not keeping it on him.



Depends on his bail conditions, if any. He may have a stipulation that he cannot be armed.


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