Public Buildings in Houston

[SteyrM40]

Hello everyone,

As Steve pointed out, I tend to be at the "pointy end of the sword" when it comes to annoying city policy in Houston. Today was a day that afforded me some free time, so I went around to a couple of public buildings (as well as The Hobby Center) to get badged and move about the buildings.

I was armed today with a SteyrM40 in a FIST Kydex IWB holster at the 3:00 position and a Kahr K40 in a Desantis ankle rig, inside left leg. I had a tape recorder in my pocket and a mic under my collar, so I have a copy of everything on tape.

The first building I went to is one of my favourites for "testing the system": Bob Lanier Public Works Building (600 Walker). As usual, I stepped in and went up to the security desk and presented my TDL and CHL. I still hate having to show my CHL to the non-LEO security people at the desk. The lady who red-badged me has red-badged me before, so she was at least familiar with the process. The recorded conversation is as follows:

Cast:
Me - himself
SG1 - first security guard
SG2 - second security guard
HPD - HPD officer


Me: Hi. I need to... (points)
SG1: Go to Human Resources?
Me: Yeah.
SG1: You have to sign in.
Me: Sign in over here? (SG1 nods) Alright.

(SG1 and SG2 chit-chat while I wait in line.)

Me: Hello. Good afternoon.
SG2: How are you?
Me: Pretty good. (I hand TDL and CHL to SG2)
SG2: You have the gun on you?
Me: Yes, I do.
SG2: (loud audible sigh) Ooooo.
Me: (yells to HPD about 20' away) He has a gun.
HPD: Okay. Does he have his license?
SG2: Yeah.
HPD: Okay.
SG2: They have to call [T-call it?], to let other people know you in the building and you got a gun.
Me: Yeah, I know.
SG2: They gotta go through all a that. (to SG1) They gotta call [Telah?] and tell him he got a --
SG1: I'll tell him. (goess to call [Telah?])
SG2: Okay.
Me: I think I'm the only who to ever get that permit (sic), becuase I get the same number everytime.
SG2: (laughs) You right.
Me: Yep. I get the same visitor's badge everytime.

(pause while SG2 fills out paperwork and badge)

Me: Who do you have to call to let them know I'm here?
SG2: The other security is watching the security.
Me: The people watching the cameras?
SG2: Mm-hmm.
Me: Okay.
SG2: (hands me badge) Let me screen you through.

At this point I walk towards the metal detector. The HPD officer tells her that I don't have to go through the metal detector (last time I had to). He waves me over to go talk with him. SG2 mentions my gun several times very loudly in the process.

Me: You want me to go over here?
HPD: Yep. Where you going?
Me: Human Resouces.
HPD: Human Resources?
Me: Yeah. I'm gonna go look at the job postings.
HPD: (inaudible)
Me: Excuse me?
HPD: Where is your gun?
Me: One here (point with elbow to right hip) and there's one in an ankle rig. Yeah?
HPD: Just, uh. Did you sign in?
Me: Signed-in. Got the badge.
HPD: You gotta... put the badge on.
Me: Gonna put the badge on now. Gonna put it here on my shirt. (I put the badge over my left pectoral)
Me: There we go.
HPD: Go overe there in the corner where they're applying for jobs and stay as long as you need.
Me: Alright. Thanks very much. Have a good afternoon.

I then browsed the job section just to have a look. I was not really interested in a job, but I figured it was a good excuse to get badged and go in the building. The lady in the HR department told me they update the job postings each Wednesday, so maybe I'll stop by each week to see what's new.

There are still some things that irritate me:
(1) I do not like showing my CHL to a Securitas employee. I'd rather volunteer it to HPD only.
(2) I do not like the red badge. I know it was a concession the City of Houston made with the state when SB501 came about, but it still irritates me to death. They should just stamp "Man with gun" on my forehead and tie some cans on a string to my leg. Only security and HPD knows what it means? Yeah right.
(3) When the second security guard (SG2) blurted out that I had a gun, a guy next to me in line damn near crapped his pants right there in line next to me. They need to add a "discreetness clause" to their employee manual or something.

Today I also stopped by the City of Houston Annex at 900 Bagby and had an interesting discussion with the commissioned security officer there. As it turns out, I was the first CHL holder he had ever met. He has taken the CHL class, but didn't want to apply for the license, since it only last one year and cost $155. I told him it now lasts 5 years and costs only $140. I also showed him UT and PA licenses and let him know they are also valid in TX. Overall, he was very friendly.

After 900 Bagby, I went by the Houston Public Library and found no illegal posting, but ran into some trouble when they said I could not take pictures. I made the security guard get her supervisor, the supervisor get his supervisor, and finally the supervisor get the Public Library PR Lady. I, of course, got my pictures.

I will post more details about those trips in other positings. I need to get the pictures and stuff into my computer before I type up those stories.

Since we haven't yet met at the TexasCHLForum weekend that will hopefully take place, I should let you know that I am an intellectual-looking type, usually dressed in slacks and a dress shirt. I probably look like the least likely CHL candidate around, but I pack, and I pack always.

Have a good one.

Stay safe...

SteyrM40

[AOPAPilot]

Nice writeup and thanks for taking the time to research this and let us know about it. Hopefully they will make some changes so that others may not have to go through that as well.

[SteyrM40]

Hello everyone,

Small clarification. The above text should read:

SG2: (yells to HPD about 20' away) He has a gun.

Before it said that I said that... which would be weird.

Stay safe...

SteyrM40

[dws1117]

They shouldn't be allowed to announce to the world that you are carrying. Have you asked anyone about why they would do something like that?

[stevie_d_64]

They sure are not very discrete...I agree that that stupid oversight on their part should be changed...

I am surprised they didn't ask you to tell them the caliber of the weapon(s) you were carrying...They did that to me at 611 Walker...I though it doesn make one friggin bit of difference what I am carrying...Other than they excuse the intrusive questioning by stating they make a report...

My deal is "who" gets the info on that report and that since it easy to corrolate the info on who and what you possess at that time...I don't like someone who doesn't need to know, knowing what your all about...

And how secure are these "reports" if it even is a real thing, and not some form of local intelligence handed over to someone to "register" us at a local level...

Thats my big imagination coming through again...

Steyr, if this has happened to you, like it has me...Maybe this would be a reason to go before counsel and put them on notice about this issue and concerns about our privacy...I would want a full account of this policy at their facilities (if they even have one) in writing for our review...

I sure do hate putting my counselperson on the spot like that,she's just too nice a lady, and she does have more important stuff to deal with...Shes about the only one there doing what shes supposed to...

[dws1117]

My deal is "who" gets the info on that report and that since it easy to corrolate the info on who and what you possess at that time...I don't like someone who doesn't need to know, knowing what your all about...

Stevie, just close your mouth and hand them your papers like a good subject should.

[SteyrM40]

Hello everyone,

AOPAPilot said:
Nice writeup and thanks for taking the time to research this and let us know about it. Hopefully they will make some changes so that others may not have to go through that as well.

Actually, this was probably the easiest trip I have had down to the Bob Lanier Public Works Building thus far. I wasn't bombarded with the usual stupid questions ("What kind of gun is it?", "Why do you need a gun?", "Can I see it?", etc. -- I have been asked all of those... by the security guards).

steve_d_64 said:
My deal is "who" gets the info on that report and that since it easy to corrolate the info on who and what you possess at that time...I don't like someone who doesn't need to know, knowing what your all about...

...

Steyr, if this has happened to you, like it has me...Maybe this would be a reason to go before counsel and put them on notice about this issue and concerns about our privacy...I would want a full account of this policy at their facilities (if they even have one) in writing for our review...

I sure do hate putting my counselperson on the spot like that,she's just too nice a lady, and she does have more important stuff to deal with...Shes about the only one there doing what shes supposed to...

We have been putting up with this crap long enough. As I mentioned, I am also very annoyed that I have to volunteer any information about my concealed carry -- even the fact that I am carrying -- to anyone other than an HPD officer. I do not like even telling the officer. There is no sort of legal requirememnt to tell a Securitas employee, is there? I know I have looked long and hard and I certainly have not seen it.

My councilwoman is Pam Holm (District G). I have no idea about the best way to bring this matter up before city council, but like I have said in the past: I'm ready to tackle this matter when you are.

If we could get several more people to help put this together, I think it would make a strong statement.

Anyone have suggestions for some first steps?

Stay safe...

SteyrM40

[stevie_d_64]

My deal is "who" gets the info on that report and that since it easy to corrolate the info on who and what you possess at that time...I don't like someone who doesn't need to know, knowing what your all about...

Stevie, just close your mouth and hand them your papers like a good subject should.

No...

[stevie_d_64]

I think I can bend the ear of Addie over this and not out her on the spot (too much) about this issue...

I'll just simply ask her about these "reports" that are generated and what the justification (who gets to review or study them), security, and retention of that data...

If the security people are lying to the public, then thats when our counsel folks need to raise the issue about the "lying" in one of their committees and takes the appropriate corrective measures, or if that does not garner any changes to their "system"...

Then I will certainly coordinate a visit (et us on the docket to speak, get us each a full 3 minutes to address them) to the public forum at city counsel and ask some very pointed questions...At which time I will love to see the reaction of the likes of Ada Edwards, Carol Galloway et. al. (they don't like me very much...I don't know why???)

[jimlongley]

(they don't like me very much...I don't know why???)

ROFLMAO - Reminds me of when my stepson's high school principal started to refuse to take calls from me. I never did quite figure out why my insistance that the school follow the school district's rules and policies, along with her own statements to me, would make me so unpopular.

[KBCraig]

ROFLMAO - Reminds me of when my stepson's high school principal started to refuse to take calls from me. I never did quite figure out why my insistance that the school follow the school district's rules and policies, along with her own statements to me, would make me so unpopular.

There's nothing a "zero tolerance" type hates more than being forced to follow their own rules. :D

Kevin