LEOSA and TCOLE

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Bryanmc
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LEOSA and TCOLE

Postby Bryanmc » Sun Jan 31, 2016 10:51 am

I'm a retired Federal Special Agent who moved to Texas in 2012. I have a Retired Law Enforcement Identification (not pin punched "retired creds") issued by my former agency (DHS/ICE). My ID spells out LEOSA and the fact that I'm covered by it as well as the fact that I need to have an up to date State firearms qualification to carry a concealed weapon. For the last few years, I have shot my qualification with a TCOLE firearms instructor and he has issued me a card, certifying that I have qualified to TCLEOSE standards and also exceeds the minimum standards for HR 218.

Now for my question. I was looking through some things the other day and see that Texas also issues a LEOSA certification for retired officers / agents. Since I already have a LEOSA ID from my agency, and LEOSA is a Federal law and not a State law, am I required to get a Texas LEOSA card, or am I ok continuing the way I have been, with my agency issued LEOSA ID and a qualification certification from a Texas law enforcement firearms instructor?

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Re: LEOSA and TCOLE

Postby WildBill » Sun Jan 31, 2016 10:55 am

I can't answer your question, but I am sure another forum member will be able to do so.
I can welcome you to the forum Bryanmc! :txflag: :patriot:
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Re: LEOSA and TCOLE

Postby srothstein » Sun Jan 31, 2016 11:09 am

You are not required to have the TCOLE ID. It is offered as a convenience to avoid having to prove qualification is you are stopped since it requires proof of your current qualification to get it issued. Some of the federal agencies were also thought to not be issuing credentials and this would allow those officers to carry.

I think the TCOLE ID might help in Texas since our police know that agency and may not recognize all of the federal agencies and their IDs. It would not help outside our state, for the same reason. I do not recommend it solely because of the $25 fee for it that you would need to pay each year. That seems excessive for me for a convenience card.
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Re: LEOSA and TCOLE

Postby Eric Lamberson » Sun Jan 31, 2016 9:58 pm

Get a Texas LTC and go about your business? A possible solution?
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Re: LEOSA and TCOLE

Postby nightmare69 » Sun Jan 31, 2016 10:23 pm

Eric Lamberson wrote:Get a Texas LTC and go about your business? A possible solution?


It's only $25 and a signature from a Chief or Sheriff and that's it.

I'm sure the OP could get a LTC for the same price but under the LEO Safe Act Peace Officers and all others who qualify can carry virtually anywhere in every state in the country. This is why I also qualify with my personal concealed firearm during my yearly weapons qualifications with my department.
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Re: LEOSA and TCOLE

Postby Bryanmc » Mon Feb 01, 2016 8:50 am

Eric Lamberson wrote:Get a Texas LTC and go about your business? A possible solution?


I have already applied for one so that if I am out of date on my qual I'm still covered to carry. Unfortunately, getting the SAC in SF to put two sentences on letterhead, stating that I retired in good standing turned out to be a bureaucratic football as it was passed from office to office trying to figure out who should write it. After 2 weeks of no progress, I sent the forms in with a request to change the application status from retired federal agent to veteran and sent them a copy of my 214. :banghead:


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Bryanmc
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Re: LEOSA and TCOLE

Postby Bryanmc » Mon Feb 01, 2016 8:57 am

nightmare69 wrote:This is why I also qualify with my personal concealed firearm during my yearly weapons qualifications with my department.


Actually the way LEOSA was written, you don't need to qualify with the specific weapon you intend to carry. It says same "type" of weapon. Some interpret that to mean handgun or long gun, but most agree it means pistol or revolver. If you shoot your department qual with say, your duty carry Sig 229, LEOSA will cover you off duty with any pistol.

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Re: LEOSA and TCOLE

Postby Excaliber » Mon Feb 01, 2016 9:07 am

The annual cost for the TCOLE card is now $35.

An LTC instructor can sign off on the qualification - it doesn't have to be a TCOLE instructor.

The "carry almost everywhere" provisions are state specific. LEOSA gives qualified retirees only the same privileges as the LTC or equivalent license in each state. In Texas, the additional privileges come from the exemption contained in PC 46.15(a)5. Some other states (e.g. Missouri) have similar provisions, but you have to be careful to check ahead of time before visiting to prevent possible misunderstandings.

If you want to carry both pistols and revolvers you have to qualify with one of each type of weapon every year (not every individual gun you may want to carry.)
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Re: LEOSA and TCOLE

Postby ScottDLS » Mon Feb 01, 2016 9:40 am

Don't forget GFSZA when driving within 1000ft of a school. There is no LEOSA exception to GFSZA... :shock:
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Re: LEOSA and TCOLE

Postby Excaliber » Mon Feb 01, 2016 1:46 pm

ScottDLS wrote:Don't forget GFSZA when driving within 1000ft of a school. There is no LEOSA exception to GFSZA... :shock:




Has anyone who actually did shoot someone on school property ever been charged under that?
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Re: LEOSA and TCOLE

Postby The Annoyed Man » Mon Feb 01, 2016 1:56 pm

ScottDLS wrote:Don't forget GFSZA when driving within 1000ft of a school. There is no LEOSA exception to GFSZA... :shock:

.....and I was JUST going to post "waiting for the obligatory GFSZA warning :nono: :rules: "........

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Re: LEOSA and TCOLE

Postby jrene » Mon Feb 01, 2016 2:31 pm

With an LTC you are exempt from the federal GFSZA per 18 U.S.C. 922(q)(2)(B)(ii). That's why you should get that.

As a qualified retired LEO with a LEOSA exemption, you are exempt from all the prohibited places described in 46.02 and 46.03 per TPC 46.15(a)(5) [as long as you have the ID card issued under Occupations Code 1701.357 - you should get the state-issued ID card to remove all doubt if you are stopped in the field].

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Re: LEOSA and TCOLE

Postby ScottDLS » Mon Feb 01, 2016 2:48 pm

Excaliber wrote:
ScottDLS wrote:Don't forget GFSZA when driving within 1000ft of a school. There is no LEOSA exception to GFSZA... :shock:




Has anyone who actually did shoot someone on school property ever been charged under that?


No and as far as I know, nobody with an out of state license, or in Vermont, or off duty LEO, or carrying a rifle in Texas has been charged with it, but ATF says you can be :biggrinjester:

And the only time anyone ever was charged under GFSZA WITHOUT a license (Lopez) the SCOTUS ruled it unconstitutional...but Congress updated it with some interstate commerce language, so we'll have to wait for the dreaded "test case". "rlol"

In the meantime just want to make sure I don't break rule 4, so I remind the LEO's and retired LEO's don't carry long guns off duty and don't carry under LEOSA out of state in a school zone without getting a local permit, and don't ever carry in Vermont in a school zone!! :mrgreen:
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Re: LEOSA and TCOLE

Postby Pauly » Mon Nov 27, 2017 11:12 am

Texas Govt. Code refers to “License to Carry a Handgun”. You do not need a TX CHL to carry under LEOSA. Therefore, if I don’t have a TX CHL I am not carrying a handgun under authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Govt Code.


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Re: LEOSA and TCOLE

Postby Bryanmc » Sun Jan 07, 2018 8:51 am

Interesting that this has been revived. I found it in a search with keywords LEOSA and TCOLE. I had a firearms instructor (state le and chl) tell me that the only valid leosa qualification card in Texas was the one issued by TCOLE. LEOSA says that you have to qualify to state standards by someone qualified to conduct the qual. I'm wondering if the state can actually requires that you have a card issued by TCOLE or a card issued by a state le instructor stating that you met standards is actually sufficient?


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