30.06 Ruling Letters

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stars200
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Re: 30.06 Ruling Letters

Postby stars200 » Fri Apr 08, 2016 1:58 pm

joe817 wrote:I'm surprised that Austin isn't claiming that their building is not an amusement park. :biggrinjester:


Nice -- Claim the elevators as a rides, would just need to expand the property to 75 acres. :smilelol5:

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Re: 30.06 Ruling Letters

Postby Flightmare » Fri Apr 08, 2016 2:02 pm

stars200 wrote:
joe817 wrote:I'm surprised that Austin isn't claiming that their building is not an amusement park. :biggrinjester:


Nice -- Claim the elevators as a rides, would just need to expand the property to 75 acres. :smilelol5:


I dunno....as one who has made several trips there I am convinced that most of Austin is a 3 ring circus!
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dhoobler
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Re: 30.06 Ruling Letters

Postby dhoobler » Fri Apr 08, 2016 8:16 pm

stars200 wrote:
joe817 wrote:I'm surprised that Austin isn't claiming that their building is not an amusement park. :biggrinjester:


Nice -- Claim the elevators as a rides, would just need to expand the property to 75 acres. :smilelol5:

It is full of clowns.
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Re: 30.06 Ruling Letters

Postby kg5ie » Sat Apr 09, 2016 8:24 am

AG copied me on his letter to Betsy Price after my complaint about Will Rogers complex. The process is working, but slowly.
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Re: 30.06 Ruling Letters

Postby rtschl » Sat Apr 09, 2016 9:28 am

kg5ie wrote:AG copied me on his letter to Betsy Price after my complaint about Will Rogers complex. The process is working, but slowly.

kg5ie,

What was in the letter? Was it similar to mine about the Ft. Worth Zoo requesting more information and documents from the City?
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Re: 30.06 Ruling Letters

Postby Dadtodabone » Sat Apr 16, 2016 11:22 am

Bump for OP link
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Re: 30.06 Ruling Letters

Postby rc-mike » Tue Apr 19, 2016 8:25 pm

There's an update on McLennan... but it's missing the critical info...

-Mike-

ps, here it is. Sounds like the AG doesn't follow the law either! I'm not surprised.

http://www.wacotrib.com/news/mclennan_county/ag-to-permit-mclennan-county-courthouse-gun-ban-with-planned/article_9a7be5fe-daeb-5d3c-9e50-7a55ab0484d6.html?mode=jqm

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Re: 30.06 Ruling Letters

Postby ELB » Tue Apr 19, 2016 8:34 pm

AG and McLennan County come to agreement on gun ban signs

The AG's original letter cited two offices that he thought a court would not regard as essential to the operation of a court: the DA's office in the Annex, and the Commissioner's Court in the Courthouse building.

The articles indicate the DA's offices will be moved out of the Annex. That removes the "offending" office from the Annex.

One article seems to indicate the Commissioners Court will remain in the courthouse building, and the building will be legally off limits to licensed carry. So has the AG changed his mind? I was surprised that he included the Commissioners Court as a non-qualifying office in the first place -- that seemed pretty aggressive -- given that the law doesn't actually say "judicial" court, and that the County Judge, a member of the Commissioners Court, can in fact have judicial duties as well as more administrative ones.
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Re: 30.06 Ruling Letters

Postby ELB » Sat Apr 23, 2016 9:18 am

New letter -- really, update to old letter about the Dallas County Government Center out as of 4/18:
https://www.texasattorneygeneral.gov/fi ... t_Cntr.pdf
Dear Judge Jenkins:
The Office of the Attorney General ("OAG") received a citizen complaint, pursuant to section
411.209 of the Government Code, concerning the wrongful exclusion of handgun license holders
from the Dallas County Government Center (the "center"), located at 10056 Marsh Lane, Dallas,
Texas 75220. By correspondence dated March 30, 2016, we notified Dallas County (the "'county")
of our determination that a violation of section 411.209 had occurred and that the county had
fifteen days to either cure the violation and come into compliance or submit detailed information
explaining why the county was not in violation.

By e-mail dated April 15, 2016, the county provided further information explaining the signs
forming the basis of the complaint were removed from the front entrance of the center and new
signs were placed near the entrances to the government courts that are located within the center.
Upon review, we conclude this modification of the posted signage is sufficient to bring the county
into compliance with section 411.209 of the Government (;ode and the relevant provisions of the
Penal Code. Accordingly, the OAG is closing this complaint.


The original letter mentioned 30.06 signs had been put up at the entrances and in the entry hall. Sounds like those are gone. I assume the signs that replaced them apply to unlicensed carry of firearms or some such.

Anybody in Dallas with looking for something to do?
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Re: 30.06 Ruling Letters

Postby mr1337 » Sat Apr 23, 2016 10:02 am

ELB wrote:New letter -- really, update to old letter about the Dallas County Government Center out as of 4/18:
https://www.texasattorneygeneral.gov/fi ... t_Cntr.pdf
Dear Judge Jenkins:
The Office of the Attorney General ("OAG") received a citizen complaint, pursuant to section
411.209 of the Government Code, concerning the wrongful exclusion of handgun license holders
from the Dallas County Government Center (the "center"), located at 10056 Marsh Lane, Dallas,
Texas 75220. By correspondence dated March 30, 2016, we notified Dallas County (the "'county")
of our determination that a violation of section 411.209 had occurred and that the county had
fifteen days to either cure the violation and come into compliance or submit detailed information
explaining why the county was not in violation.

By e-mail dated April 15, 2016, the county provided further information explaining the signs
forming the basis of the complaint were removed from the front entrance of the center and new
signs were placed near the entrances to the government courts that are located within the center.
Upon review, we conclude this modification of the posted signage is sufficient to bring the county
into compliance with section 411.209 of the Government (;ode and the relevant provisions of the
Penal Code. Accordingly, the OAG is closing this complaint.


The original letter mentioned 30.06 signs had been put up at the entrances and in the entry hall. Sounds like those are gone. I assume the signs that replaced them apply to unlicensed carry of firearms or some such.

Anybody in Dallas with looking for something to do?


Instead of 30.06 signs, Austin City Hall is giving verbal notice, which is still notice under 30.06. Mr. Cargill has filed an additional complaint with the AG due to the verbal notice.
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Re: 30.06 Ruling Letters

Postby pt145ss » Tue Apr 26, 2016 9:05 am

In light of the Pasadena Letter, should we say something about SAXET posting 30.06/.07 signs at a gun show at the Ranch Park Event Center (owned by the City of Dripping Springs) the past weekend?

Unfortunately I did not get a picture of it.

To be frank, I'm on the fence about this. I think it may be way to tempting for someone with a CHL who is carrying at a gun show, to pull it out (the gun that is) to try a holster or something. Something about the atmosphere at a gun show because I get the feeling that one would think about the consequences more if they were at a gun shop as opposed to a gun show. Nothing to back that up, just a gut feeling. I suppose stupid people can be stupid anywhere they please, so may be my feeling is off base.

I suppose in the grand scheme of things, I would rather have my choice of carrying at a gun show and risk stupid people doing stupid things.


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Re: 30.06 Ruling Letters

Postby locke_n_load » Tue Apr 26, 2016 11:29 am

pt145ss wrote:In light of the Pasadena Letter, should we say something about SAXET posting 30.06/.07 signs at a gun show at the Ranch Park Event Center (owned by the City of Dripping Springs) the past weekend?

Unfortunately I did not get a picture of it.

To be frank, I'm on the fence about this. I think it may be way to tempting for someone with a CHL who is carrying at a gun show, to pull it out (the gun that is) to try a holster or something. Something about the atmosphere at a gun show because I get the feeling that one would think about the consequences more if they were at a gun shop as opposed to a gun show. Nothing to back that up, just a gut feeling. I suppose stupid people can be stupid anywhere they please, so may be my feeling is off base.

I suppose in the grand scheme of things, I would rather have my choice of carrying at a gun show and risk stupid people doing stupid things.


They can post other signs to effect of "keep all loaded firearms holstered at all times" instead of 30.06/30.07 signs. Would work just fine.
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Re: 30.06 Ruling Letters

Postby Jusme » Tue Apr 26, 2016 11:43 am

locke_n_load wrote:
pt145ss wrote:In light of the Pasadena Letter, should we say something about SAXET posting 30.06/.07 signs at a gun show at the Ranch Park Event Center (owned by the City of Dripping Springs) the past weekend?

Unfortunately I did not get a picture of it.

To be frank, I'm on the fence about this. I think it may be way to tempting for someone with a CHL who is carrying at a gun show, to pull it out (the gun that is) to try a holster or something. Something about the atmosphere at a gun show because I get the feeling that one would think about the consequences more if they were at a gun shop as opposed to a gun show. Nothing to back that up, just a gut feeling. I suppose stupid people can be stupid anywhere they please, so may be my feeling is off base.

I suppose in the grand scheme of things, I would rather have my choice of carrying at a gun show and risk stupid people doing stupid things.


They can post other signs to effect of "keep all loaded firearms holstered at all times" instead of 30.06/30.07 signs. Would work just fine.



If an LTC holder unholsters a loaded gun, they are in violation if they do so without justification of needing to use deadly force. That applies at gun shows or the corner grocery store. I would also hope that LTC holders are smart enough, that, if they want to try out holsters, or any other accessories, for their carry gun, that they do so with it unloaded and locked by security. They can still have carry gun, but not the one they are buying anything for.

On a side note, most people who OC at gun shows are looking to sell or trade the gun that is visible, so others may ask to see it. I would advise to CC your EDC and only OC one you are looking to sell or buy parts/accessories. JMHO
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Re: 30.06 Ruling Letters

Postby locke_n_load » Thu Apr 28, 2016 8:16 am

Jusme wrote:If an LTC holder unholsters a loaded gun, they are in violation if they do so without justification of needing to use deadly force. That applies at gun shows or the corner grocery store.


You can draw your weapon as long as the use of force has been justified. It does not have to be deadly force. I.e. you can draw with the intent to de-escalate a situation. If you shoot, then you need the justification for deadly force.

It is a defense to prosecution under Subsection (a), (a-1), (a-2), or (a-3) that the actor, at the time of the commission of the offense, displayed the handgun under circumstances in which the actor would have been justified in the use of force or deadly force under Chapter 9.
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Re: 30.06 Ruling Letters

Postby Charles L. Cotton » Thu Apr 28, 2016 3:37 pm

locke_n_load wrote:
Jusme wrote:If an LTC holder unholsters a loaded gun, they are in violation if they do so without justification of needing to use deadly force. That applies at gun shows or the corner grocery store.


You can draw your weapon as long as the use of force has been justified. It does not have to be deadly force. I.e. you can draw with the intent to de-escalate a situation. If you shoot, then you need the justification for deadly force.

It is a defense to prosecution under Subsection (a), (a-1), (a-2), or (a-3) that the actor, at the time of the commission of the offense, displayed the handgun under circumstances in which the actor would have been justified in the use of force or deadly force under Chapter 9.


Correct. This changed in 2013 with the passage of SB299 (Sen. Estes) that also changed the offense of not concealing one's handgun (TPC §46.035(a)).

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