Armor Of Light

[TrueFlog]

Not sure if this is the right place for this topic - mods, please feel free to move it...

Has anyone here seen the documentary "Armor of Light"? Some Christian friends of ours mentioned that they watched it, and it really challenged their view on guns. I haven't watched it, but I've read a few reviews on it. It seems to me to be more propaganda than documentary. They use such empty arguments as "If you trust God, you don't need a gun for self-defense." (If that's true, I guess I don't need health insurance, seat belts, a 401K, etc.) The reviews also seem to focus alot of the case of Jordan Davis and the claim that his death was the result of Florida's Stand Your Ground Laws - never mind that his killer was convicted of 1st degree murder and sentenced to life in prison.

Anywho, I'm curious if anyone here has seen the film and cares to comment on it.

Official Site
Review on Variety.com

[Mel]

"If you trust God, you don't need a gun for self-defense."

I seem to remember something along the lines of "The Lord helps those who help themselves."

[treadlightly]

Would that it were true, that there were no need for guns. I love 'em, obviously, but if I had a chance to move a world with free will, liberty, an absence of tyranny, an absence of crime, and no guns, I might just jump ship.

Might as well throw in free pet unicorns.

In this world, my concern is a bad guy's muzzle flash is a serious challenge to an armor of light.

Looking at the other side of the equation, if the presence of a defensive weapon changes a Christian's heart, that might be a Christian who needs to stay away from guns and maybe a little closer to his philosophy. Just sayin'.

[mloamiller]

I haven't seen the video, but can certainly comment on whether it's biblical for a Christian to carry a gun (I am one, and I do!).

First, you're absolutely correct about the "If you trust God..." empty arguments. Based on that same logic, a Christian should never go to a doctor, own a fire extinguisher, etc. As for a few scriptural references:

• When Nehemiah returned to Jerusalem to rebuild the walls around the city, he instructed his people to carry "their swords, their spears, and their bows" in order to protect themselves against the threats from their enemies (i.e. they adopted Open Carry). He then says “Do not be afraid of them. Remember the Lord, who is great and awesome, and fight for your brothers, your sons, your daughters, your wives, and your homes.” (Neh 4:12-23)

• When Jesus was betrayed in the Garden of Gethsemane, and Peter drew his sword to protect him (cutting off someone's ear in the process), Jesus told him to put it away. However, Jesus didn't rebuke Peter for having the sword, or even from using it in general. Jesus only rebuked Peter because Peter was interfering with God's plan - "Shall I not drink the cup the Father has given me?” (John 18:11). In fact, Jesus actually instructed His disciples to get a sword if they didn't already have one (Luke 22:36).

• People who hold that "Christian's shouldn't own/carry guns" usually use Matthew 5:38-39 as their reason - "turn the other cheek." However, if you read the full context of that chapter, Jesus is talking about how to respond to those who aren't being nice to you (v11). If He meant a Christian should never protect himself or his family from someone trying to do them harm, He would not have told the disciples to get a sword, nor would Nehemiah have said the same thing to his people.

1 Tim 5:8 "But if anyone does not provide for his relatives, and especially for members of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever." "Provide" can also mean "care", and it isn't a stretch to include "protect" as well.

[Bitter Clinger]

Deuteronomy 20:8

And the officers shall speak further unto the people, and they shall say: 'What man is there that is fearful and faint-hearted? let him go and return unto his house, lest his brethren's heart melt as his heart.'

[TangoX-ray]

Personally, I am partial to Luke 22:36.

He said to them, “But now let the one who has a moneybag take it, and likewise a knapsack. And let the one who has no sword sell his cloak and buy one.

But this was the first thing that came to mind...

A terrible storm came into a town and local officials sent out an emergency warning that the riverbanks would soon overflow and flood the nearby homes. They ordered everyone in the town to evacuate immediately.

A faithful Christian man heard the warning and decided to stay, saying to himself, “I will trust God and if I am in danger, then God will send a divine miracle to save me.”

The neighbors came by his house and said to him, “We’re leaving and there is room for you in our car, please come with us!” But the man declined. “I have faith that God will save me.”

As the man stood on his porch watching the water rise up the steps, a man in a canoe paddled by and called to him, “Hurry and come into my canoe, the waters are rising quickly!” But the man again said, “No thanks, God will save me.”

The floodwaters rose higher pouring water into his living room and the man had to retreat to the second floor. A police motorboat came by and saw him at the window. “We will come up and rescue you!” they shouted. But the man refused, waving them off saying, “Use your time to save someone else! I have faith that God will save me!”

The flood waters rose higher and higher and the man had to climb up to his rooftop.

A helicopter spotted him and dropped a rope ladder. A rescue officer came down the ladder and pleaded with the man, "Grab my hand and I will pull you up!" But the man STILL refused, folding his arms tightly to his body. “No thank you! God will save me!”

Shortly after, the house broke up and the floodwaters swept the man away and he drowned.

When in Heaven, the man stood before God and asked, “I put all of my faith in You. Why didn’t You come and save me?”

And God said, “Son, I sent you a warning. I sent you a car. I sent you a canoe. I sent you a motorboat. I sent you a helicopter. What more were you looking for?”

[Countryside]

There is no contradiction between faith and common sense preparation.

If anyone wants to read a Biblical story about the importance of the right to keep and bear arms read the book of Esther, especially the 8th and 9th chapters. King Ahasuerus had been duped into issuing a decree to have the Jews killed, and since it was a decree it could not be canceled. So instead, he issued a new decree...that they could arm themselves and defend themselves against anyone who tried to hurt them. They did.
This is a Biblical record of the right to keep and bear arms....long before America even existed.

[The Annoyed Man]

"If you trust God, you don't need a gun for self-defense."

I seem to remember something along the lines of "The Lord helps those who help themselves."

Actually, both are wrong.

This is my perspective as a committed evangelical Christian....... Sometimes God intercedes in person (Moses and the Burning Bush, Abraham and the Lord before the destruction of Sodom & Gomorrah, and possibly with Mary Magdalene, Joana and Mary mother of James before the empty tomb); sometimes He sends an angelic being to intercede on our behalves (Mary and the angel, Joseph and the angel, Zechariah and the angel, the shepherds and the angel, etc.); sometimes God sends a human agent of his will (Simon of Cyrene, Moses leading Israel, Phillip in Samaria, etc.); sometimes God calls on us to intercede on our own behalves or someone else's; and sometimes God intercedes by calling us home.

We should endeavor to be ready for any and all of the above. I don't carry a gun because I don't trust God to protect me. I carry one because I want to be ready if He calls on me for my own intercession, or to intercede on someone else's behalf. If it is His will to call me home that day, I could be carrying a pack howitzer and it won't make a bit of difference. If I ever have to draw my gun in what I perceive to be a self-defense situation, and it is His will that I NOT shoot the other person, he will not allow me to do it. He is sovereign in all things. But it isn't just being ready if He calls on me...... I also want to be ready in heart and mind if He ever shows Himself to me in person. I want to be ready to recognize when He has sent someone to my aid - whether angelic or human. I want to be ready in heart and mind if it is His will to call me home.

Also, there is some debate over the meaning of this passage from Luke, but Luke 22:35-38 (ESV) says:

Scripture Must Be Fulfilled in Jesus
35 And he said to them, “When I sent you out with no moneybag or knapsack or sandals, did you lack anything?” They said, “Nothing.” 36 He said to them, “But now let the one who has a moneybag take it, and likewise a knapsack. And let the one who has no sword sell his cloak and buy one. 37 For I tell you that this Scripture must be fulfilled in me: ‘And he was numbered with the transgressors.’ For what is written about me has its fulfillment.” 38 And they said, “Look, Lord, here are two swords.” And he said to them, “It is enough.”

To put that into context, in that day, a man's cloak might was often his most prized possession; so the command to sell one's cloak if necessary to afford the price of a sword places some importance on the sword. Now, I want to stress that there IS disagreement among God-fearing saved theologians about the meaning of this passage.....but I take it to mean that, in a dangerous world, particularly when being about God's business, we should be prepared with the means of self-defense. The translation of "sword" there refers to the short, pointed, double edged sword that was fairly commonly carried by people in a sheath suspended from the belt, not carried by EVERYbody, but commonly carried. It would have been analogous to a handgun today in self-defense terms (as opposed to a rifle or shotgun which would be more analogous to a broadsword), although it also had other uses such as cutting bread, food prep, animal slaughter, etc. But in this passage, Jesus is telling the apostles that this time, when he sends them out, they are going to be going out without him there in the flesh to guide and protect them, and that therefore, the ability to defend ones self was important enough to sell your most valued possession to get the money to buy a sword if you didn't have one.

In any case, the argument that possessing the means of self-defense is an indication of lack of trust in God is a particularly specious one. Paul said that those who would not work (because they were sitting around expecting the imminent return of Christ) should not eat. Does that mean that Paul did not trust God? Jesus tells the parables of the talents, in which the person who got the biggest return on the master's money got the biggest reward......the implication being that we are to take what He gives us, and build on it (whether that means creating new converts or something else).....it's called "good stewardship", and being prepared to protect your own life implies being a good steward of the gift of life we've been given.

It is equally specious to say that the Lord helps those who help themselves, because sometimes, despite a man's very best efforts and conscientious stewardship, everything can still fail.....people who ate right and exercised regularly still have heart attacks or cancer.... marriages still fail despite the faithful efforts of one of the spouses to bring reconciliation.

Here's what IS true: God is in control of everything, and nothing happens except he allows it.....even though we may not be able to wrap our finite minds around His purposes. What I DO know is that what we break, He is able to redeem and use for His glory. His grace covers our deficiencies, so long as we belong to Him.

Anyway, the movie's premise is entirely false, if they are saying that carrying the means of self-defense is a failure to trust in God.

[Smokey613]

This is probably like the new Katie Couric "documentary" Under The Gun. I recorded it and watched it at a later time. This is such a progressive/liberal slanted movie it was almost too much to endure. If you are ignorant of the facts, it is a very persuasive movie. The common theme throughout the movie is "gun violence". This appears to be the mantra for these people. As much as I have searched over the years, I have yet to locate a violent gun.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt5275886/

[TrueFlog]

Thanks for all the responses; I have no doubt that self-defense and the Christian faith are compatible. I'm still curious if anyone has seen the film I referenced? I'd like to be able to intelligently discuss the film with my friends, but I'm afraid watching the film would only enrage me.

[RossA]

[/quote]

I seem to remember something along the lines of "The Lord helps those who help themselves."[/quote]

Except that's not in the Bible, although many people think it is.

[Abraham]

TrueFlog,

I avoid getting worked up about left leaning gun misinformation.

As a younger guy, I'd been tempted to watch the movie mentioned earlier in this thread, but I enjoy my serenity too much...

The anti-gun nuts can proselytize to each other all they want, but I won't give em the time of day.

[KLB]

Christianity is not a suicide compact. I'll defend myself as necessary to the best of my ability.

[JRG]

Being a Christian for 50+years, I find that carrying a gun in no way interferes with my beliefs. I have some Christian friends that want to pray about all situations, and there is nothing wrong with that, but in the face of evil in the form of someone wanting to harm me or my family, there may not be time to get that prayer sent up before all hell breaks loose.

Joe

[mayor]

"If you trust God, you don't need a gun for self-defense."

I seem to remember something along the lines of "The Lord helps those who help themselves."

Actually, both are wrong.

This is my perspective as a committed evangelical Christian....... Sometimes God intercedes in person (Moses and the Burning Bush, Abraham and the Lord before the destruction of Sodom & Gomorrah, and possibly with Mary Magdalene, Joana and Mary mother of James before the empty tomb); sometimes He sends an angelic being to intercede on our behalves (Mary and the angel, Joseph and the angel, Zechariah and the angel, the shepherds and the angel, etc.); sometimes God sends a human agent of his will (Simon of Cyrene, Moses leading Israel, Phillip in Samaria, etc.); sometimes God calls on us to intercede on our own behalves or someone else's; and sometimes God intercedes by calling us home.

We should endeavor to be ready for any and all of the above. I don't carry a gun because I don't trust God to protect me. I carry one because I want to be ready if He calls on me for my own intercession, or to intercede on someone else's behalf. If it is His will to call me home that day, I could be carrying a pack howitzer and it won't make a bit of difference. If I ever have to draw my gun in what I perceive to be a self-defense situation, and it is His will that I NOT shoot the other person, he will not allow me to do it. He is sovereign in all things. But it isn't just being ready if He calls on me...... I also want to be ready in heart and mind if He ever shows Himself to me in person. I want to be ready to recognize when He has sent someone to my aid - whether angelic or human. I want to be ready in heart and mind if it is His will to call me home.

Also, there is some debate over the meaning of this passage from Luke, but Luke 22:35-38 (ESV) says:

Scripture Must Be Fulfilled in Jesus
35 And he said to them, “When I sent you out with no moneybag or knapsack or sandals, did you lack anything?” They said, “Nothing.” 36 He said to them, “But now let the one who has a moneybag take it, and likewise a knapsack. And let the one who has no sword sell his cloak and buy one. 37 For I tell you that this Scripture must be fulfilled in me: ‘And he was numbered with the transgressors.’ For what is written about me has its fulfillment.” 38 And they said, “Look, Lord, here are two swords.” And he said to them, “It is enough.”

To put that into context, in that day, a man's cloak might was often his most prized possession; so the command to sell one's cloak if necessary to afford the price of a sword places some importance on the sword. Now, I want to stress that there IS disagreement among God-fearing saved theologians about the meaning of this passage.....but I take it to mean that, in a dangerous world, particularly when being about God's business, we should be prepared with the means of self-defense. The translation of "sword" there refers to the short, pointed, double edged sword that was fairly commonly carried by people in a sheath suspended from the belt, not carried by EVERYbody, but commonly carried. It would have been analogous to a handgun today in self-defense terms (as opposed to a rifle or shotgun which would be more analogous to a broadsword), although it also had other uses such as cutting bread, food prep, animal slaughter, etc. But in this passage, Jesus is telling the apostles that this time, when he sends them out, they are going to be going out without him there in the flesh to guide and protect them, and that therefore, the ability to defend ones self was important enough to sell your most valued possession to get the money to buy a sword if you didn't have one.

In any case, the argument that possessing the means of self-defense is an indication of lack of trust in God is a particularly specious one. Paul said that those who would not work (because they were sitting around expecting the imminent return of Christ) should not eat. Does that mean that Paul did not trust God? Jesus tells the parables of the talents, in which the person who got the biggest return on the master's money got the biggest reward......the implication being that we are to take what He gives us, and build on it (whether that means creating new converts or something else).....it's called "good stewardship", and being prepared to protect your own life implies being a good steward of the gift of life we've been given.

It is equally specious to say that the Lord helps those who help themselves, because sometimes, despite a man's very best efforts and conscientious stewardship, everything can still fail.....people who ate right and exercised regularly still have heart attacks or cancer.... marriages still fail despite the faithful efforts of one of the spouses to bring reconciliation.

Here's what IS true: God is in control of everything, and nothing happens except he allows it.....even though we may not be able to wrap our finite minds around His purposes. What I DO know is that what we break, He is able to redeem and use for His glory. His grace covers our deficiencies, so long as we belong to Him.

Anyway, the movie's premise is entirely false, if they are saying that carrying the means of self-defense is a failure to trust in God.

My thoughts exactly in words more succinct than I could produce given a few hours.