Peruta En Banc Opinion - Concealed Carry Lost

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rotor
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Re: Peruta En Banc Opinion - Concealed Carry Lost

Postby rotor » Fri Jun 10, 2016 12:49 pm

Middle Age Russ wrote:
I wish I had this much faith in the American people but I fear we have crossed the line where a critical mass just doesn't understand or care enough to stand up to it. I would love to be convinced otherwise but I tend to think Mr. Cotton's view is correct. There won't be a "confiscation", the restrictions will continue to be more subtle and gradual and justified as "common sense", and therefore there won't be a mass resistance. And then at the end of the day the public will cave.


I have a great deal of faith in people who identify as Americans first, or at least as much as they identify as any other thing -- particularly in those who have studied American history and the associated western philosophy that made it possible. These folks value the underpinnings of our nation and will not likely "go quietly into the night". But are there enough of them(us) committed to do our part to turn society back toward the principles it was founded on?

I also have faith that there are vast swaths of our society who neither know nor value the precepts that our nation was founded upon. These are the same low-information individuals that see fit to elect un-Americans to office. They are also the ones who will applaud "law enforcement" all day long when the authorities trample individual liberty to "forward the Progressive agenda". The numbers in this camp grow daily due to constant hammering by the progressive propaganda machines -- the press and the education systems.

Without equally consistent messaging and education representing the principles that built this nation, the concepts of individual liberty and individual human rights may soon be lost in favor of "the greater good". The path we are on (Collectivism) inevitably produces neither greater nor good for individuals that are the governed. Remember the three boxes of a free man -- soap, ballot and cartridge. Raise your voices where and when you can, vote your conscience whenever you have a chance, and prepare for both better times and worse.

I don't have that faith in the American public. All I have to do is look at some of my own family members to know that we have an uphill battle.


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Re: Peruta En Banc Opinion - Concealed Carry Lost

Postby Redneck_Buddha » Fri Jun 10, 2016 4:34 pm

Has anyone posted the nickname for that court? "The Ninth Jerk It Court of Schlemiels".
Stop slackin', start packin'.
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The Wall
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Re: Peruta En Banc Opinion - Concealed Carry Lost

Postby The Wall » Fri Jun 10, 2016 6:22 pm

Chas.[/quote]
Charles, this is the defendant's appeal of the earlier 9th circuit's 3 judge panel decision which protected concealed carry?

In any case, don't Heller and McDonald supersede any 9th circuit decision?[/quote]

Yes to both questions. Gun owners won before a three-judge panel, but the City asked for and received an en banc hearing. Heller and McDonald are still good law, for now, but neither case dealt with "bearing" arms outside the home. This decision is wrong, but it does not conflict with either SCOTUS case at this point.

Make no mistake, if Hillary wins, the Heller decision will be overturned and the Second Amendment will be rendered meaningless. The never-Trump crowd needs to fully understand this. There are no alternatives, there are no counter-arguments and there is no justification for doing anything that allows Clinton to occupy the White House.

Chas.[/quote]

Charles, can I use your part in red as a quote?

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Re: Peruta En Banc Opinion - Concealed Carry Lost

Postby Charles L. Cotton » Fri Jun 10, 2016 7:56 pm

The Wall wrote:
Charles L. Cotton wrote:
Yes to both questions. Gun owners won before a three-judge panel, but the City asked for and received an en banc hearing. Heller and McDonald are still good law, for now, but neither case dealt with "bearing" arms outside the home. This decision is wrong, but it does not conflict with either SCOTUS case at this point.

Make no mistake, if Hillary wins, the Heller decision will be overturned and the Second Amendment will be rendered meaningless. The never-Trump crowd needs to fully understand this. There are no alternatives, there are no counter-arguments and there is no justification for doing anything that allows Clinton to occupy the White House.

Chas.


Charles, can I use your part in red as a quote?


Yes. Thanks for asking.

Chas.
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anygunanywhere
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Re: Peruta En Banc Opinion - Concealed Carry Lost

Postby anygunanywhere » Sat Jun 11, 2016 8:01 am

1911s should be carried openly as God and John Moses Browning (PBUH) intended them to be.
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Re: Peruta En Banc Opinion - Concealed Carry Lost

Postby gljjt » Sat Jun 11, 2016 8:50 am

The Annoyed Man wrote:I was a funeral for an extended family member on Wednesday, and my son's brother in law - a currently serving LEO - and I were talking about potential loss of the 2nd Amendment. He said that, on the day he gets orders to stack up outside someone's home to confiscate their guns is the day he realizes that he no longer has an interest in law enforcement and retires. He would refuse to carry out such orders. That's the problem (and the blessing) - a problem for the statists, and a blessing for freedom loving americans. SOMEbody is going to have to stack up outside a home, kick the door down, and storm the place, NOBODY wants to be the first in the stack, and almost nobody wants to even be last in the stack. In the end, the fascists have to get somebody to do their dirty work for them......and most of the people who are trained and equipped for that kind of thing are not so inclined.


When that day comes, that will be the start of armed civil disobedience. Not all will resist, but enough will do so to shut that tactic down. If it continues, violence will escalate. If Hillary is elected, I predict we will see civil disobedience (violence) on a scale not seen since the Civil War. I'm not advocating, I'm predicting.

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An unconstitutional law is no law at all - me

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TexasJohnBoy
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Re: Peruta En Banc Opinion - Concealed Carry Lost

Postby TexasJohnBoy » Sat Jun 11, 2016 9:13 am


Great read. I totally agree with him re: seat belt law. It's not about safety, it about another avenue for probable cause. That being said, I wear mine 100% of the time, and I would if there wasn't a law for it.
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Re: Peruta En Banc Opinion - Concealed Carry Lost

Postby ScottDLS » Sat Jun 11, 2016 9:38 am

TexasJohnBoy wrote:

Great read. I totally agree with him re: seat belt law. It's not about safety, it about another avenue for probable cause. That being said, I wear mine 100% of the time, and I would if there wasn't a law for it.


:iagree:

i wore mine when there wasn't a law, then I was in the first state that passed a seat belt law (New York). Then as usual it got federalized through funding of highways and all 50 states had to fall in line. Where is the the seat belt clause in the Constitution...I guess its right next to the drinking age amendment and the transgender article... :smilelol5:
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JustSomeOldGuy
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Re: Peruta En Banc Opinion - Concealed Carry Lost

Postby JustSomeOldGuy » Sat Jun 11, 2016 10:40 am

The current situation brings to mind two things
- the position England was in leading up to the Magna Carta
- Sean Connery's character in the movie "Highlander"; "If the Hillary (Kurgan) were to win the prize, mortal man would suffer an eternity of darkness"

OK, three things....
One of my history professors (in the previous century) giving an example of monarchy vs. democracy; "A monarchy is like a magnificent ship of the line under full sail, until she strikes a reef and goes down with all hands. Democracy is like a raft. You never sink, but your feet are always wet."

I fear I may need a wetsuit in the near future..... :shock:
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Abraham
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Re: Peruta En Banc Opinion - Concealed Carry Lost

Postby Abraham » Sat Jun 11, 2016 10:41 am

If Hillary wins, goes for a gun grab, they're will civil disobedience on a scale never before seen in the U.S. which could easily escalate...

Vote for Trump.

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ScottDLS
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Re: Peruta En Banc Opinion - Concealed Carry Lost

Postby ScottDLS » Sat Jun 11, 2016 11:02 am

We didn't have recognized 2nd amendment rights at the federal level from 1934 until Heller in 2008. They were never incorporated to the States until McDonald vs. Chicago. However additional federal restrictions will require legislation to implement and more than just appointing more leftist SCOTUS judges to reverse Heller. After Hillary wins it will take a while to get judges in and I don't think it will be that easy to get more federal legislation passed. The action will be at the state level where NRA and others have been consistently successful over the last 30 years in bringing back our rights. Even during the Obama admin we got National Park carry and resisted his registration attempts. All the more reason to vote down ballot even if you don't lik Trump. He'll probably lose when the biased press gets done with him and even if he wins there's no guarantee he won't nominate some more Souter and Kennedy type justices...or sign another AWB like GW would have done if congress had sent him one in 2004. The fight is moving back to the States...at least that's my prediction. :rules:
4/13/1996 Completed CHL Class, 4/16/1996 Fingerprints, Affidavits, and Application Mailed, 10/4/1996 Received CHL, renewed 1998, 2002, 2006, 2011, 2016...). "ATF... Uhhh...heh...heh....Alcohol, tobacco, and GUNS!! Cool!!!!"

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KLB
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Re: Peruta En Banc Opinion - Concealed Carry Lost

Postby KLB » Sat Jun 11, 2016 9:12 pm

Here's an interesting discussion of the opinion:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/vol ... witterfeed

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Re: Peruta En Banc Opinion - Concealed Carry Lost

Postby SQLGeek » Tue Jun 14, 2016 3:43 pm

This was a crushing blow to those of us under the jurisdiction of the 9th Circuit - though not at all unexpected. When I heard it would go to an en banc hearing, I knew that this would be the outcome. Unfortunately concealed carry will continue to remain a privilege that is at the whim of our local sheriff.

With the spat of anti-gun bills worming through California's legislature, the future of having Gavin Newsom (spit) as Governor of this state and now this, gun rights are all but lost here. One day soon I expect that concealed carry will be repealed entirely here.

The sad fact of the matter is that right now, Canadians can buy more types of rifles and handguns than Californians can.

And when the new Assault Weapons Ban is introduced in Congress (just today Mitch McConnell is starting to fold), that will be true for all of the United States.

I hate this god forsaken state. I miss Texas so.
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JALLEN
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Re: Peruta En Banc Opinion - Concealed Carry Lost

Postby JALLEN » Tue Jun 14, 2016 3:48 pm

Abraham wrote:If Hillary wins, goes for a gun grab, they're will civil disobedience on a scale never before seen in the U.S. which could easily escalate...

Vote for Trump.



I wasn't there to see it personally, but my impression is that the Civil War involved some pretty serious and widespread disobedience, defiance, even.
Luckily, I have enough willpower to control the driving ambition that rages within me.

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Re: Peruta En Banc Opinion - Concealed Carry Lost

Postby Photoman » Wed Jun 15, 2016 7:13 am

Charles L. Cotton wrote:
Someone else's recap wrote:This is a recapitulation of the opinion:

We do not reach the question whether the Second Amendment protects some ability to carry firearms in public, such as open carry. That question was left open by the Supreme Court in Heller, and we have no need to answer it here. Because Plaintiffs challenge only policies governing concealed carry, we reach only the question whether the Second Amendment protects, in any degree, the ability to carry concealed firearms in public. Based on the overwhelming consensus of historical sources, we conclude that the protection of the Second Amendment — whatever the scope of that protection may be — simply does not extend to the carrying of concealed firearms in public by members of the general public. The Second Amendment may or may not protect, to some degree, a right of a member of the general public to carry firearms in public. But the existence vel non of such a right, and the scope of such a right, are separate from and independent of the question presented here. We hold only that there is no Second Amendment right for members of the general public to carry concealed firearms in public.


Chas.



Are we to conclude that the Court believes the Bill of Rights was codified to protect the rights of the government, not the individual?


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