Shooting dogs

[Javier730]

I carry an ASP and my G23 every morning while jogging on the levee. I see a coyote once a month but they aren't very interested tangling with my dog that out weighs them by 60lbs.

A few months back I did have an interesting encounter when in the dimly lite wee hours of the morning what I thought was a coyote was b lining it towards me, fast enough that I didn't think an ASP was a good option. I drew my weapon. Turns out the owner was walking down by the river and the dog had just come up the levee to say high. He yelled out "whoa whoa!" I apologized and told him to be careful about the coyotes. He was incredibly understanding and for some reason has been very polite every time I see in the morning.

I hope to never have to shoot a dog in self defense.

PS: Re: carry of ASP. IANAL, but I am of the belief that if I am carrying my gun I am covered under the law to carry an asp as well.

What makes you believe that?

There's been a lot of back-and-forth discussion about it but below is the reason some believe that

(b) Section 46.02 does not apply to a person who:

(6) is carrying a concealed handgun and a valid license issued under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, to carry a concealed handgun;

Others contend that was not what the legislature intended.

I would think that applied to a person licensed and them carrying handguns. If the non-applicability makes it legal to carry batons, then technically one could also carry a knife with a blade longer the 5 1/2 inches or one that is double edged. Interesting.

[loktite]

*snip*
I would assume that if a walker fired a round to the dirt that it would probably scare the dog away, but I don't know if that is a guarantee.
*snip*

!!! Wait just a minute !!! Walkers can fire guns?!?! Oh man this puts a whole new spin on the zombie apocalypse! ScottDLS, we must rethink our strategies !

[nightmare69]

You better be a LEO or level 3 security and both require certification to carry an ASP. If not be ready to take a ride. I don't believe LTC gives you an exemption by technicality or any other reason.

[C-dub]

Interesting, and good to know at least some PD's will support us in that situation.

I'm a huge supporter of LE and will give them the benefit of the doubt 99.9999999% of the time. However, in cases like, it makes me wonder just a little if they're not glad a citizen dispatched the dog instead of one of them when they have to deal with the paperwork, paid leave during the investigation, bad press, and everyone saying that he was a good dog just protecting his yard and didn't know any better.

A few years ago I would not have worried about another dog coming after mine on a walk. Mine could have handled just about anything we might encounter, but now that he's 8+ years old he's starting to slow down a bit. He still thinks he's the king of the jungle, but ...

[rotor]

You better be a LEO or level 3 security and both require certification to carry an ASP. If not be ready to take a ride. I don't believe LTC gives you an exemption by technicality or any other reason.

You say this but 46.02 prohibits carrying the club, 46.15 B6 says
"(b) Section 46.02 does not apply to a person who"

"(6) is carrying:
(A) a license issued under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, to carry a handgun; and
(B) a handgun:
(i) in a concealed manner; or
(ii) in a shoulder or belt holster;"

See page 56 and 57 of the new CHL. This would imply to me that carrying a club (asp) whatever is legal if you are carrying a handgun as above and a club and have a license to carry. Before open carry the older CHL-16 did not refer to the shoulder or belt holster so obviously with the change it is the legislative attempt to make it legal and the new CHL-16 reflects that change. There are other laws that have exemptions at the end such as carrying in a church. I am not a lawyer and if I wanted to carry an asp I personally would check with my local chief of police. On other matters like this I have email saying that carry was legal. Note though that you have to be licensed and carrying a gun. License alone is not enough.
The other option is a sjambok, very effective and legal.

[rotor]

Sjambok

[nightmare69]

You better be a LEO or level 3 security and both require certification to carry an ASP. If not be ready to take a ride. I don't believe LTC gives you an exemption by technicality or any other reason.

You say this but 46.02 prohibits carrying the club, 46.15 B6 says
"(b) Section 46.02 does not apply to a person who"

"(6) is carrying:
(A) a license issued under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, to carry a handgun; and
(B) a handgun:
(i) in a concealed manner; or
(ii) in a shoulder or belt holster;"

See page 56 and 57 of the new CHL. This would imply to me that carrying a club (asp) whatever is legal if you are carrying a handgun as above and a club and have a license to carry. Before open carry the older CHL-16 did not refer to the shoulder or belt holster so obviously with the change it is the legislative attempt to make it legal and the new CHL-16 reflects that change. There are other laws that have exemptions at the end such as carrying in a church. I am not a lawyer and if I wanted to carry an asp I personally would check with my local chief of police. On other matters like this I have email saying that carry was legal. Note though that you have to be licensed and carrying a gun. License alone is not enough.
The other option is a sjambok, very effective and legal.

It's a grey area IMO as I and level 3 security are required to take the ASP certification course (full 8hrs) in order to carry yet you say LTC holders are exempt. If you got caught there is a good chance you would be arrested and the police would let the court decide if you can legally carry or not. It would be easier to have a solid "walking stick" that has twice the reach of an ASP and you would be legal.

[Oldgringo]

What is an ASP, a snake?

[WildBill]

What is an ASP, a snake?

An asp is an expandable baton.

[Oldgringo]

What is an ASP, a snake?

An asp is an expandable baton.

Thank you, Bill. I recall reading about an asp that was a snake in some old book somewhere.

[rotor]

You better be a LEO or level 3 security and both require certification to carry an ASP. If not be ready to take a ride. I don't believe LTC gives you an exemption by technicality or any other reason.

You say this but 46.02 prohibits carrying the club, 46.15 B6 says
"(b) Section 46.02 does not apply to a person who"

"(6) is carrying:
(A) a license issued under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, to carry a handgun; and
(B) a handgun:
(i) in a concealed manner; or
(ii) in a shoulder or belt holster;"

See page 56 and 57 of the new CHL. This would imply to me that carrying a club (asp) whatever is legal if you are carrying a handgun as above and a club and have a license to carry. Before open carry the older CHL-16 did not refer to the shoulder or belt holster so obviously with the change it is the legislative attempt to make it legal and the new CHL-16 reflects that change. There are other laws that have exemptions at the end such as carrying in a church. I am not a lawyer and if I wanted to carry an asp I personally would check with my local chief of police. On other matters like this I have email saying that carry was legal. Note though that you have to be licensed and carrying a gun. License alone is not enough.
The other option is a sjambok, very effective and legal.

It's a grey area IMO as I and level 3 security are required to take the ASP certification course (full 8hrs) in order to carry yet you say LTC holders are exempt. If you got caught there is a good chance you would be arrested and the police would let the court decide if you can legally carry or not. It would be easier to have a solid "walking stick" that has twice the reach of an ASP and you would be legal.

I agree, all I can do is read that CHL-16 and try to figure out the legal terms. To me it appears though that it is legal if all conditions are met. At least you would have a legal argument although possibly at great expense. I may ask the question from my local chief of police and see what he says. I personally carry a sjambok when I walk the dogs ( as well as my gun ) which I believe to be more effective and I know is legal. The solid walking stick idea potentially can get you in the same trouble if you were carrying it for use as a club.

[newlife12176]

Did the PD take the dogs body for necropsy? This is the standard procedure now.

No, suspect took his own dog. I've never seen or heard any PD doing that.

[newlife12176]

nightmare69,

Presumably, they'd be looking for rabies or a brain tumor to help explain the dog's aggressiveness?

Or, am I off base?

Thanks!

No way. Who is gonna pay for that? They have to find a DVM to do it. Shelter vets are too busy. That isn't routine at all. Doesn't matter why the dog was aggressive. Even if rabid. Highly highly unlikely. Dog was aggressive cause it was not neutered and had an idiot for an owner.

[newlife12176]

I know the popular position on "warning shots" is that it's never a good idea.

I would assume that if a walker fired a round to the dirt that it would probably scare the dog away, but I don't know if that is a guarantee. I would assume though that if a neighbor called the police after hearing a gunshot, that a person would likely be charged with unlawful weapon discharge, though presumably the walker has a defense if that they had no other way to scare away the aggressive dog (especially if the walker calls the police him or herself). Still seems like a bad idea to fire into the ground. Just curious as I know that most of us never want to shoot someone's pet (or a human for that matter).

In this case it sounds like the pitbull owners could not keep the dog controlled. Had the walker not shot the dog but had called police for a dog attack, with the past history, would this dog have been taken from its owners?

Firing a warning shot is never a good idea in my opinion. Even in this instance. With an aggressive male pit bull attacking, it's doubtful that would have changed its mind. I've seen them hit with tire irons and they still keep attacking.

If the previous complainant in the first case I mentioned would have proceeded with filing a dangerous dog affidavit, then went to court to testify, a judge could have ruled the dog dangerous. The owner then has to keep it behind a locked gate, get 100k insurance policy, etc etc. If they didn't do that, the dog could have been removed from him by court order only. But since the previous complainant didn't want to file DD, there wasn't anything we could have done.