Wings Over Dallas CAF Air Show

[cowhow]

The wife and I are going to the Commemorative Air Force air show Sunday at Dallas Executive airport. From reading their policies on their web site it seems there are security personnel who will be doing a cursory bag search, but nothing is said about weapons. The airport is owned by the city of Dallas and I would think the CAF would be pro 2nd Amendment. But, if something were said and I had to walk all the way back to the car to unload, I'd never hear the end of it.

[Rex B]

Should be no different than the State Fair, unless they decide to call it a "professional sporting event" or a "school", because there will be children present.

But seriously, I would not think it would be posted. I noticed the Ft Worth Air Show was not posted this year.

[Dragonfighter]

KRBD (Dallas Executive formerly Redbird) does not have a "secure area" as of the last time I was there. Most buildings are FBOs not commercial terminals. That said, I don't know if a normally secured ramp is still a "secured area" once you allow masses of the public on board.

While the area surrounding is not as bad as it once was, I have made so many runs responding to violent encounters in the surrounding neighborhoods, I would not go down there unarmed.

[cowhow]

Thanks for the input, guys. I'm in Fort Worth and rarely in that part of Dallas. I've read of several private events posting, some enforceable some not, and I don't want to get into an argument with security and be "that guy" everyone's staring and point at.

I hope our upcoming legislative session will help us with that.

[cowhow]

So, we wound up not going but I did get an email from Texas 3006 that the event was posted. Russell rightly noted that it was not enforceable (read illegal). Let me ask the self answering question, when will event organizers learn, or at least seek qualified legal advice nefore posting such signage? Or, are they posting in hopes LTC holders will blindly comply?

[Rex B]

I walked about 1/4 mile from my car to find the big 30.06/07 signs at the intrance. I was not happy walking back to my car, considered just driving home. But I disarmed and hiked back in.

Though they weren't doing pat-downs or anything more than looking in big purses and bags, I was not 100% sure I would have been legal carrying there.

[Rex B]

So who do we write to, to complain?

[Rex B]

FB Chat Conversation Start


As a longtime fan and supporter of CAF, I enjoyed the show. However, I was hugely disappointed to see the 30.06/30.07 "no guns" signs at the entrance. Those signs were illegal and unenforceable. If they are present at future events, I will not attend, not will I support any organization that posts such signage."

Thanks Rex. We are glad you enjoyed the show. The signs were a requirement of our Insurance

I''m not surprised, but be advised they are illegal and can result in serious fines against CAF. The CHL community and the attorney general take a very dim view of illegal signage barring CHLs. CAF and your insuror may want to revisit this before next year, as I am sure this event will be given scrutiny.

[ScottDLS]

Ah the elusive "Insurance requirement". I'll be interested to hear from some of the insurance professionals on this board which companies specifically require illegal and unenforceable 30.06/7 notices on city property. That said, unless they were frisking or wanding people, I would have carried concealed, but I respect people that choose otherwise in order to eliminate potential hassle.

This also brings to mind another thought I've had about unlawfully enforced 30.0X signs. There is always a risk of bad court decisions resulting from activist judges trying to "fix" the law because they don't like what it says. It CAN'T be possible that it is legal to open carry at the Houston Zoo. Therefore, the judge will "fix" the law by finding you guilty of PC 30.07...If you appeal you might get a better judge, or you might get the same WRONG decision at that level where it can establish a bad precedent. This has happened in other states and at the national level.

[cowhow]

How many times has "insurance" been blamed for posting nonenforceable signs? If an insurance company, who is on the hook for significant sums of money, isn't aware of all applicable laws impacting their risk exposure I would suggest a different insurance provider. I'm not casting a shadow on the CAF, or maybe I am, but there has to be better due diligence in this sort of thing.

[cowhow]

There is always a risk of bad court decisions resulting from activist judges trying to "fix" the law because they don't like what it says. It CAN'T be possible that it is legal to open carry at the Houston Zoo. Therefore, the judge will "fix" the law by finding you guilty of PC 30.07..

I agree and I hope this gets positive attention in Austin next year. I would like to see all signage issued by DPS who would provide a searchable database similar to what TABC has with red gun signs. Fees always have a way of making businesses rethink their strategy. I'd also like to see 30.06 and 30.07 made so broad as to be essentially null. I'm more interested in where we can carry as to how we can carry. Bottom line is illegal posting of signs needs to stop and the AG hasn't seemed to be too speedy in assisting with that.

[JustSomeOldGuy]

FB Chat Conversation Start


As a longtime fan and supporter of CAF, I enjoyed the show. However, I was hugely disappointed to see the 30.06/30.07 "no guns" signs at the entrance. Those signs were illegal and unenforceable. If they are present at future events, I will not attend, not will I support any organization that posts such signage."

Thanks Rex. We are glad you enjoyed the show. The signs were a requirement of our Insurance

I''m not surprised, but be advised they are illegal and can result in serious fines against CAF. The CHL community and the attorney general take a very dim view of illegal signage barring CHLs. CAF and your insuror may want to revisit this before next year, as I am sure this event will be given scrutiny.

Why does no one ever respond to this with "I'd like the name of the company providing your policy, and contact info for the local agent"? Or even "I'd like a copy of your policy, or at least of the clause that states you must post 30.06/30.07"

Given that the air show took place on (0ver?) city owned property, could this be acquired with a FOIA Request? The city probably required verification of insurance coverage as part of the lease agreement for the event.

[george72]

Respectfully, if you want change you need to stop patronizing businesses that don't respect your rights/views. Putting your gun in your car and then giving that business money doesn't make sense at all to me. Simply refuse to give money to businesses that don't respect your natural rights of self/family protection.

I am a small business owner, and I can assure you that pretty much the only thing guaranteed to make a company change is a shrinking bottom line (combined with knowing why it is shrinking, e.g. a polite business card no guns/no money, email to the CEO, etc).

[Rex B]

My wife can attest to the fact that I will walk away from a business with 30.06 signs, and not go back while signs are up. I have also been proactive in contacting local businesses about these issues, and have been successful in changing policy on at least one occasion. However, after driving an hour to this show I was not going to cut off my nose to spite my face. They would not have missed my $20m and I would have missed a good show. However, I will not go back if it is posted. And I did register my displeasure.

I wish the status had been posted here or at 30.06.com before I got there (I checked).

I also wish there was a quick-response team with TSRA to get these people on the phone or even have a carefully worded notice couriered to the event management as soon as these signs are reported. Maybe a hotline?

[ScottDLS]

My wife can attest to the fact that I will walk away from a business with 30.06 signs, and not go back while signs are up. I have also been proactive in contacting local businesses about these issues, and have been successful in changing policy on at least one occasion. However, after driving an hour to this show I was not going to cut off my nose to spite my face. They would not have missed my $20m and I would have missed a good show. However, I will not go back if it is posted. And I did register my displeasure.

I wish the status had been posted here or at 30.06.com before I got there (I checked).

I also wish there was a quick-response team with TSRA to get these people on the phone or even have a carefully worded notice couriered to the event management as soon as these signs are reported. Maybe a hotline?

Given that it's city owned and assuming that they weren't wanding people, would you consider concealed carrying past the signs?