Bipolar II misdiagnosis

[The Annoyed Man]

By the way, how to you answer question (f) on the 4473 when you buy a gun? Maybe answer the application the same way.

I answer no, because it's true. Difference is though, that applying for the chl they're asking specifically what if anything I've been diagnosed for. That's where they got me.

Here's what I can find in the CHL-16 publication on the DPS website:

GC §411.180. NOTIFICATION OF DENIAL, REVOCATION, OR SUSPENSION OF LICENSE; REVIEW.

• (h) The department may use and introduce into evidence certifed copies of governmental records to establish the existence of certain events that could result in the denial, revocation, or suspension of a license under this subchapter, including records regarding convictions, judicial findings regarding mental competency, judicial findings regarding chemical dependency, or other matters that may be established by governmental records that have been properly authenticated.

Here's what I found on the PDF of the LTC application:

Have you ever been treated and / or admitted to a facility for drug, alcohol and / or psychiatric care; OR been diagnosed as suffering from a psychiatric disorder or condition that causes or is likely to cause substantial impairment in judgment, mood, perception, impulse control or intellectual ability; OR pleaded innocent by reason of insanity; OR been found mentally incompetent; OR had court-ordered outpatient treatment? [bolded text in original - TAM]

Obviously, you were not treated by or admitted to a psychiatric facility. You have had a misdiagnosis, but there is no record of it. You have never pleaded innocent by reason of insanity. You've never been found mentally incompetent. You've never had a court-ordered treatment.

I'm not advising you to lie on the application, but if I were a betting man, I'd say you would probably get away with it if you did. Butdon't lie!!!!

That would be wrong. Or something.

[Edwards07]

By the way, how to you answer question (f) on the 4473 when you buy a gun? Maybe answer the application the same way.

I answer no, because it's true. Difference is though, that applying for the chl they're asking specifically what if anything I've been diagnosed for. That's where they got me.

Here's what I can find in the CHL-16 publication on the DPS website:

GC §411.180. NOTIFICATION OF DENIAL, REVOCATION, OR SUSPENSION OF LICENSE; REVIEW.

• (h) The department may use and introduce into evidence certifed copies of governmental records to establish the existence of certain events that could result in the denial, revocation, or suspension of a license under this subchapter, including records regarding convictions, judicial findings regarding mental competency, judicial findings regarding chemical dependency, or other matters that may be established by governmental records that have been properly authenticated.

Here's what I found on the PDF of the LTC application:

Have you ever been treated and / or admitted to a facility for drug, alcohol and / or psychiatric care; OR been diagnosed as suffering from a psychiatric disorder or condition that causes or is likely to cause substantial impairment in judgment, mood, perception, impulse control or intellectual ability; OR pleaded innocent by reason of insanity; OR been found mentally incompetent; OR had court-ordered outpatient treatment? [bolded text in original - TAM]

Obviously, you were not treated by or admitted to a psychiatric facility. You have had a misdiagnosis, but there is no record of it. You have never pleaded innocent by reason of insanity. You've never been found mentally incompetent. You've never had a court-ordered treatment.

I'm not advising you to lie on the application, but if I were a betting man, I'd say you would probably get away with it if you did. Butdon't lie!!!!

That would be wrong. Or something.

I guess I could have forgotten all about that one doctor visit 15 years ago....

[Ruark]

You guys need to do your homework.

The LTC application asks:

"have you been .... diagnosed as suffering from a psychiatric disorder or condition that causes or is likely to cause substantial
impairment in judgment, mood, perception, impulse control or intellectual ability.."

If "yes," you complete form CHL-78C in addition to the LTC app CHL-78A. CHL-78-C basically repeats the question. The "psychiatric disorder or condition" is defined in Texas Code 411.172(e)(5)(B)........ "bipolar disorder."

(gasp, pant....)

But all is not lost. If such diagnosis has occurred, Texas Code 411.172(f) states:

"...... a person who has previously been diagnosed as suffering from a psychiatric disorder or condition described by Subsection (d) or listed in Subsection (e) is not because of that disorder or condition incapable of exercising sound judgment with respect to the proper use and storage of a handgun if the person provides the department with a certificate from a licensed physician whose primary practice is in the field of psychiatry stating that the psychiatric disorder or condition is in remission and is not reasonably likely to develop at a future time."

You owe me a beer.

[TreyHouston]

Giving free samples is not being diagnosed. You should ask the wife for your medical file so you can read it IMHO. I would do that simply because I'm a curious person. If the medical file cannot be produced then you were never there. Same thing with Red light tickets

[rotor]

Giving free samples is not being diagnosed. You should ask the wife for your medical file so you can read it IMHO. I would do that simply because I'm a curious person. If the medical file cannot be produced then you were never there. Same thing with Red light tickets

You were there if insurance was filed with the diagnosis of bipolar disorder. No insurance filing then that's a questionable different provable matter but are you prepared to lie? If a doctor told you you are bipolar and treated you as a bipolar you are a bipolar until proven otherwise. I don't know what a free sample has to do with it. If you had cancer and was given a sample that doesn't mean you don't have cancer. Get that letter from a board certified psychiatrist. If you are caught in a lie there is probably a big penalty, I don't know what but there must be one. Possibly a felony? You need to be able to prove that your doctor was wrong. Denial of disease is not proof of no disease.

So instead of looking for a way to lie yourself out of this see a board certified psychiatrist, don't mention guns as a reason and get a letter that you have no history of psychiatric disease either in the past or present.

[TreyHouston]

Giving free samples is not being diagnosed. You should ask the wife for your medical file so you can read it IMHO. I would do that simply because I'm a curious person. If the medical file cannot be produced then you were never there. Same thing with Red light tickets

You were there if insurance was filed with the diagnosis of bipolar disorder. No insurance filing then that's a questionable different provable matter but are you prepared to lie? If a doctor told you you are bipolar and treated you as a bipolar you are a bipolar until proven otherwise. I don't know what a free sample has to do with it. If you had cancer and was given a sample that doesn't mean you don't have cancer. Get that letter from a board certified psychiatrist. If you are caught in a lie there is probably a big penalty, I don't know what but there must be one. Possibly a felony? You need to be able to prove that your doctor was wrong. Denial of disease is not proof of no disease.

So instead of looking for a way to lie yourself out of this see a board certified psychiatrist, don't mention guns as a reason and get a letter that you have no history of psychiatric disease either in the past or present.

OK so I am not saying to lie. But if you were only given samples and not a prescription then you're not diagnosed with cancer. The sample drugs or simply to see if they affect you or not. I am sure that the insurance record which show it as a consultation and nothing more. That's why asked for him to request his medical record through either the insurance or the physicians wife

[rotor]

Giving free samples is not being diagnosed. You should ask the wife for your medical file so you can read it IMHO. I would do that simply because I'm a curious person. If the medical file cannot be produced then you were never there. Same thing with Red light tickets

You were there if insurance was filed with the diagnosis of bipolar disorder. No insurance filing then that's a questionable different provable matter but are you prepared to lie? If a doctor told you you are bipolar and treated you as a bipolar you are a bipolar until proven otherwise. I don't know what a free sample has to do with it. If you had cancer and was given a sample that doesn't mean you don't have cancer. Get that letter from a board certified psychiatrist. If you are caught in a lie there is probably a big penalty, I don't know what but there must be one. Possibly a felony? You need to be able to prove that your doctor was wrong. Denial of disease is not proof of no disease.

So instead of looking for a way to lie yourself out of this see a board certified psychiatrist, don't mention guns as a reason and get a letter that you have no history of psychiatric disease either in the past or present.

OK so I am not saying to lie. But if you were only given samples and not a prescription then you're not diagnosed with cancer. The sample drugs or simply to see if they affect you or not. I am sure that the insurance record which show it as a consultation and nothing more. That's why asked for him to request his medical record through either the insurance or the physicians wife

A doctor has given meds for treatment of a disease. That's it. Let's not make this complicated. The OP saw a psychiatrist for an illness, was treated with meds (samples) and diagnosed as bipolar. Treatment doesn't mean he has to go to a drugstore and pay for the meds. With psychiatric illness there is no lab test or biopsy. It is the opinion of the doctor and this doctor treated his patient. Until proven otherwise I believe the OP does not qualify for a LTC. By law he does not qualify. He still has an out though and that is what he should take. The excuse that his treatment was "samples" will fall on deaf ears. Get a letter.

[jkurtz]

Giving free samples is not being diagnosed. You should ask the wife for your medical file so you can read it IMHO. I would do that simply because I'm a curious person. If the medical file cannot be produced then you were never there. Same thing with Red light tickets

You were there if insurance was filed with the diagnosis of bipolar disorder. No insurance filing then that's a questionable different provable matter but are you prepared to lie? If a doctor told you you are bipolar and treated you as a bipolar you are a bipolar until proven otherwise. I don't know what a free sample has to do with it. If you had cancer and was given a sample that doesn't mean you don't have cancer. Get that letter from a board certified psychiatrist. If you are caught in a lie there is probably a big penalty, I don't know what but there must be one. Possibly a felony? You need to be able to prove that your doctor was wrong. Denial of disease is not proof of no disease.

So instead of looking for a way to lie yourself out of this see a board certified psychiatrist, don't mention guns as a reason and get a letter that you have no history of psychiatric disease either in the past or present.

OK so I am not saying to lie. But if you were only given samples and not a prescription then you're not diagnosed with cancer. The sample drugs or simply to see if they affect you or not. I am sure that the insurance record which show it as a consultation and nothing more. That's why asked for him to request his medical record through either the insurance or the physicians wife

Getting a sample versus a prescription has nothing to do with whether or not a diagnosis was made. A sample may be given to see if a specific medication is effective for a patient before having the patient pay to fill a prescription. If it works then call it into the pharmacy. If it doesn't, try something else.

[Edwards07]

Giving free samples is not being diagnosed. You should ask the wife for your medical file so you can read it IMHO. I would do that simply because I'm a curious person. If the medical file cannot be produced then you were never there. Same thing with Red light tickets

You were there if insurance was filed with the diagnosis of bipolar disorder. No insurance filing then that's a questionable different provable matter but are you prepared to lie? If a doctor told you you are bipolar and treated you as a bipolar you are a bipolar until proven otherwise. I don't know what a free sample has to do with it. If you had cancer and was given a sample that doesn't mean you don't have cancer. Get that letter from a board certified psychiatrist. If you are caught in a lie there is probably a big penalty, I don't know what but there must be one. Possibly a felony? You need to be able to prove that your doctor was wrong. Denial of disease is not proof of no disease.

So instead of looking for a way to lie yourself out of this see a board certified psychiatrist, don't mention guns as a reason and get a letter that you have no history of psychiatric disease either in the past or present.

OK so I am not saying to lie. But if you were only given samples and not a prescription then you're not diagnosed with cancer. The sample drugs or simply to see if they affect you or not. I am sure that the insurance record which show it as a consultation and nothing more. That's why asked for him to request his medical record through either the insurance or the physicians wife

She gave me a prescription and free samples of the drug. I did fill the prescription. I just didn't take any because I wasn't buying in to the diagnosis. It was an old lady - I don't have a clue who she could have passed those records to, doubt there was a husband alive if not then, surely by now.

[ScottDLS]

Giving free samples is not being diagnosed. You should ask the wife for your medical file so you can read it IMHO. I would do that simply because I'm a curious person. If the medical file cannot be produced then you were never there. Same thing with Red light tickets

You were there if insurance was filed with the diagnosis of bipolar disorder. No insurance filing then that's a questionable different provable matter but are you prepared to lie? If a doctor told you you are bipolar and treated you as a bipolar you are a bipolar until proven otherwise. I don't know what a free sample has to do with it. If you had cancer and was given a sample that doesn't mean you don't have cancer. Get that letter from a board certified psychiatrist. If you are caught in a lie there is probably a big penalty, I don't know what but there must be one. Possibly a felony? You need to be able to prove that your doctor was wrong. Denial of disease is not proof of no disease.

So instead of looking for a way to lie yourself out of this see a board certified psychiatrist, don't mention guns as a reason and get a letter that you have no history of psychiatric disease either in the past or present.

OK so I am not saying to lie. But if you were only given samples and not a prescription then you're not diagnosed with cancer. The sample drugs or simply to see if they affect you or not. I am sure that the insurance record which show it as a consultation and nothing more. That's why asked for him to request his medical record through either the insurance or the physicians wife

Getting a sample versus a prescription has nothing to do with whether or not a diagnosis was made. A sample may be given to see if a specific medication is effective for a patient before having the patient pay to fill a prescription. If it works then call it into the pharmacy. If it doesn't, try something else.

Is the OP sure the official diagnosis was recorded in the Doctor's records as Bipolar II? Was it submitted to an insurance company as such? If so then the records would exist perhaps with the insurance. If not sure, then why are all us layperson (internet) medical professionals? A doctor can prescribe me any legal medicine for any reason they please. The official diagnosis is typically recorded in the Doctor's records. If they no longer exist, then how can OP be sure that was the exact diagnosis based on a conversation with the physician?

I'm not making any recommendation as to what to do, but I believe based on the facts stated so far the OP is eligible for the LTC. It's up to the State to ask for additional information if they believe that an official diagnosis was made. If the OP isn't even sure of the official diagnosis due to the lack of records, then he is making no misrepresentation.

[rotor]

Giving free samples is not being diagnosed. You should ask the wife for your medical file so you can read it IMHO. I would do that simply because I'm a curious person. If the medical file cannot be produced then you were never there. Same thing with Red light tickets

You were there if insurance was filed with the diagnosis of bipolar disorder. No insurance filing then that's a questionable different provable matter but are you prepared to lie? If a doctor told you you are bipolar and treated you as a bipolar you are a bipolar until proven otherwise. I don't know what a free sample has to do with it. If you had cancer and was given a sample that doesn't mean you don't have cancer. Get that letter from a board certified psychiatrist. If you are caught in a lie there is probably a big penalty, I don't know what but there must be one. Possibly a felony? You need to be able to prove that your doctor was wrong. Denial of disease is not proof of no disease.

So instead of looking for a way to lie yourself out of this see a board certified psychiatrist, don't mention guns as a reason and get a letter that you have no history of psychiatric disease either in the past or present.

OK so I am not saying to lie. But if you were only given samples and not a prescription then you're not diagnosed with cancer. The sample drugs or simply to see if they affect you or not. I am sure that the insurance record which show it as a consultation and nothing more. That's why asked for him to request his medical record through either the insurance or the physicians wife

Getting a sample versus a prescription has nothing to do with whether or not a diagnosis was made. A sample may be given to see if a specific medication is effective for a patient before having the patient pay to fill a prescription. If it works then call it into the pharmacy. If it doesn't, try something else.

Is the OP sure the official diagnosis was recorded in the Doctor's records as Bipolar II? Was it submitted to an insurance company as such? If so then the records would exist perhaps with the insurance. If not sure, then why are all us layperson (internet) medical professionals? A doctor can prescribe me any legal medicine for any reason they please. The official diagnosis is typically recorded in the Doctor's records. If they no longer exist, then how can OP be sure that was the exact diagnosis based on a conversation with the physician?

I'm not making any recommendation as to what to do, but I believe based on the facts stated so far the OP is eligible for the LTC. It's up to the State to ask for additional information if they believe that an official diagnosis was made. If the OP isn't even sure of the official diagnosis due to the lack of records, then he is making no misrepresentation.

The application asks
"have you been .... diagnosed as suffering from a psychiatric disorder or condition that causes or is likely to cause substantial
impairment in judgment, mood, perception, impulse control or intellectual ability.."
The OP started this thread with a YES. So how does that make him eligible? The only way he is eligible is if he doesn't report or if he gets a letter from a psychiatrist. His choice. But if he filed insurance or had a prescription filled then there are records. The docs records would probably have been destroyed after 7 years. This does not require a medical degree to figure out. The OP knew when he asked the question that he was going to have a hard time getting a LTC.

[ScottDLS]

Application asks: Have you been diagnosed? Well if that's what you remember the doctor saying...and your memory is accurate, yes. If you forgot or the doctor never did make an official diagnosis, no. Prescription is irrelevant. I can be prescribed bipolar medicine for nerve pain, or some other non-disqualifying illness.

[TreyHouston]

Giving free samples is not being diagnosed. You should ask the wife for your medical file so you can read it IMHO. I would do that simply because I'm a curious person. If the medical file cannot be produced then you were never there. Same thing with Red light tickets

You were there if insurance was filed with the diagnosis of bipolar disorder. No insurance filing then that's a questionable different provable matter but are you prepared to lie? If a doctor told you you are bipolar and treated you as a bipolar you are a bipolar until proven otherwise. I don't know what a free sample has to do with it. If you had cancer and was given a sample that doesn't mean you don't have cancer. Get that letter from a board certified psychiatrist. If you are caught in a lie there is probably a big penalty, I don't know what but there must be one. Possibly a felony? You need to be able to prove that your doctor was wrong. Denial of disease is not proof of no disease.

So instead of looking for a way to lie yourself out of this see a board certified psychiatrist, don't mention guns as a reason and get a letter that you have no history of psychiatric disease either in the past or present.

OK so I am not saying to lie. But if you were only given samples and not a prescription then you're not diagnosed with cancer. The sample drugs or simply to see if they affect you or not. I am sure that the insurance record which show it as a consultation and nothing more. That's why asked for him to request his medical record through either the insurance or the physicians wife

Getting a sample versus a prescription has nothing to do with whether or not a diagnosis was made. A sample may be given to see if a specific medication is effective for a patient before having the patient pay to fill a prescription. If it works then call it into the pharmacy. If it doesn't, try something else.

Is the OP sure the official diagnosis was recorded in the Doctor's records as Bipolar II? Was it submitted to an insurance company as such? If so then the records would exist perhaps with the insurance. If not sure, then why are all us layperson (internet) medical professionals? A doctor can prescribe me any legal medicine for any reason they please. The official diagnosis is typically recorded in the Doctor's records. If they no longer exist, then how can OP be sure that was the exact diagnosis based on a conversation with the physician?

I'm not making any recommendation as to what to do, but I believe based on the facts stated so far the OP is eligible for the LTC. It's up to the State to ask for additional information if they believe that an official diagnosis was made. If the OP isn't even sure of the official diagnosis due to the lack of records, then he is making no misrepresentation.

The application asks
"have you been .... diagnosed as suffering from a psychiatric disorder or condition that causes or is likely to cause substantial
impairment in judgment, mood, perception, impulse control or intellectual ability.."
The OP started this thread with a YES. So how does that make him eligible? The only way he is eligible is if he doesn't report or if he gets a letter from a psychiatrist. His choice. But if he filed insurance or had a prescription filled then there are records. The docs records would probably have been destroyed after 7 years. This does not require a medical degree to figure out. The OP knew when he asked the question that he was going to have a hard time getting a LTC.

Wow! That is a lot of quotes! If you were diagnosed given a sample and filled prescription. You were diagnosed as bipolar II. Inquire of the medical board and seek another professional opinion if you cannot get the records of your original diagnosis. I am not a psychologist or a psychiatrist and they (professionals) know better than I do. Seek professional help with this one. The other posters are correct ...

[Liberty]

Man, all this hassle just for going to a shrink. I wonder how many people would hesitate going to a Psychiatrist, even if they believed they could be helped, because of the threat to their rights to defend themselves.

I have known people with PTSD who never got treatment from the VA because they were so afraid they would get labeled or locked up. One close friend spent a couple of years homeless before his family found him. He never did get professional help but seemed to get better as he got older, but he was able to buy guns and go to the range right up until the day he died.

Its a shame though he could have been spared a lot of pain in his life if he wasn't so afraid of being labeled and losing his rights. I know I wouldn't go to one of these guys or to the VA, once labeled it can be awfully tough to rid yourself of this label.