Courthouse carry legal?

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Doug.38PR
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Courthouse carry legal?

Postby Doug.38PR » Thu Jan 12, 2017 2:53 pm

I just got told by a county clerk deputy that you can legally carry in a courthouse in Texas with a CHL as long as it's concealed. Said a guy threatened to sue and the legislature changed the law allowing carry except in courtrooms.


Is this true? I've lived away from Texas for a while. Working here again

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ELB
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Re: Courthouse carry legal?

Postby ELB » Thu Jan 12, 2017 3:17 pm

I'm guessing this was not in Waller County...

More to the point:

The law on where one can and can't carry with respect to government buildings has not changed in a long time - 10 years maybe? But there was no penalty if a state or local government ignored the law and forbade licensed carry on its property.

What's new is that the Legislature enacted an enforcement mechanism. Citizens can complain in writing to the offending government entity, and if they do not remove an illegal prohibition against licensed carry within three days, the citizen can forward the complaint to the Texas AG. The AG will investigate (takes awhile), and if the government entity is found in violation, will issue a cure letter that threatens legal action and fines if the problem is not corrected in 15 days.

One of the places where a government entity can legally forbid licensed carry is in a courtroom and offices utilized by the court. Up until the advent of the enforcement mechanism, many counties just placed the entire courthouse or municipal building off limits if contained any kind of a court.

The Texas AG has taken the position that that law means that only the court rooms and offices actually used in a judicial proceeding, not other offices that just happened to be adjacent to the court, or that perform subsidiary functions. So if there are other offices in a courthouse besides an actual courtroom and/or judge's chambers, such as a court clerk or county treasurer or even a DA's office, you can't forbid licensed carry throughout the whole building.

Most counties, either of their own accord or when challenged by the AG, have acceded to this interpretation, but there are several that are refusing to abide by the AG's opinion, and the AG has sued one of them (City of Austin) and has a brief in another court action (Waller County).

There are other threads describing these situations, one of them he here: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=85417&hilit=waller+county.

Happy reading, and be pleased that your local courthouse has decided to follow the law, apparently!
Last edited by ELB on Thu Jan 12, 2017 3:55 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Jusme
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Re: Courthouse carry legal?

Postby Jusme » Thu Jan 12, 2017 3:26 pm

Doug.38PR wrote:I just got told by a county clerk deputy that you can legally carry in a courthouse in Texas with a CHL as long as it's concealed. Said a guy threatened to sue and the legislature changed the law allowing carry except in courtrooms.


Is this true? I've lived away from Texas for a while. Working here again




Most Texas courthouses have followed the law and only prohibit carry OC or CC in courtrooms, but several are not, and have posted signage at the entrances even if there are offices not connected to the courts. I don't know of any that only allow CC, but I could be wrong. It sounds like the deputy clerk got some misinformation. The law was not changed due to a threatened lawsuit, but a guy was sued by a county for filing a complaint with the AG.
Hopefully with the next legislative session, these issues will be finally decided, and all courthouses along with other government buildings will comply with the letter and the intent of the law.
Take away the Second first, and the First is gone in a second :rules: :patriot:


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Doug.38PR
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Re: Courthouse carry legal?

Postby Doug.38PR » Thu Jan 12, 2017 5:04 pm

Jusme wrote:
Doug.38PR wrote:I just got told by a county clerk deputy that you can legally carry in a courthouse in Texas with a CHL as long as it's concealed. Said a guy threatened to sue and the legislature changed the law allowing carry except in courtrooms.


Is this true? I've lived away from Texas for a while. Working here again




Most Texas courthouses have followed the law and only prohibit carry OC or CC in courtrooms, but several are not, and have posted signage at the entrances even if there are offices not connected to the courts. I don't know of any that only allow CC, but I could be wrong. It sounds like the deputy clerk got some misinformation. The law was not changed due to a threatened lawsuit, but a guy was sued by a county for filing a complaint with the AG.
Hopefully with the next legislative session, these issues will be finally decided, and all courthouses along with other government buildings will comply with the letter and the intent of the law.


How can a government entity sue a citizen for legally filing a complaint appealing to the state attorney general when it's perfectly legal to do so?

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Jusme
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Re: Courthouse carry legal?

Postby Jusme » Thu Jan 12, 2017 6:12 pm

Doug.38PR wrote:
Jusme wrote:
Doug.38PR wrote:I just got told by a county clerk deputy that you can legally carry in a courthouse in Texas with a CHL as long as it's concealed. Said a guy threatened to sue and the legislature changed the law allowing carry except in courtrooms.


Is this true? I've lived away from Texas for a while. Working here again




Most Texas courthouses have followed the law and only prohibit carry OC or CC in courtrooms, but several are not, and have posted signage at the entrances even if there are offices not connected to the courts. I don't know of any that only allow CC, but I could be wrong. It sounds like the deputy clerk got some misinformation. The law was not changed due to a threatened lawsuit, but a guy was sued by a county for filing a complaint with the AG.
Hopefully with the next legislative session, these issues will be finally decided, and all courthouses along with other government buildings will comply with the letter and the intent of the law.


How can a government entity sue a citizen for legally filing a complaint appealing to the state attorney general when it's perfectly legal to do so?



That has been the $64,000 question on this thread: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=85417&hilit=Waller+county
Take away the Second first, and the First is gone in a second :rules: :patriot:


Soccerdad1995
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Re: Courthouse carry legal?

Postby Soccerdad1995 » Thu Jan 12, 2017 6:34 pm

Doug.38PR wrote:
Jusme wrote:
Doug.38PR wrote:I just got told by a county clerk deputy that you can legally carry in a courthouse in Texas with a CHL as long as it's concealed. Said a guy threatened to sue and the legislature changed the law allowing carry except in courtrooms.


Is this true? I've lived away from Texas for a while. Working here again




Most Texas courthouses have followed the law and only prohibit carry OC or CC in courtrooms, but several are not, and have posted signage at the entrances even if there are offices not connected to the courts. I don't know of any that only allow CC, but I could be wrong. It sounds like the deputy clerk got some misinformation. The law was not changed due to a threatened lawsuit, but a guy was sued by a county for filing a complaint with the AG.
Hopefully with the next legislative session, these issues will be finally decided, and all courthouses along with other government buildings will comply with the letter and the intent of the law.


How can a government entity sue a citizen for legally filing a complaint appealing to the state attorney general when it's perfectly legal to do so?


It is easy when there is a subdued populace. Governments do a lot of things they should not do. Of course, some believe that there are natural checks and balances on such tyranny.

...that whenever any government becomes destructive of those ends it is the right of the people to overthrow it and to replace it with a new form of government......
Ding dong, the witch is dead


mr1337
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Re: Courthouse carry legal?

Postby mr1337 » Thu Jan 12, 2017 6:50 pm

Doug.38PR wrote:I just got told by a county clerk deputy that you can legally carry in a courthouse in Texas with a CHL as long as it's concealed. Said a guy threatened to sue and the legislature changed the law allowing carry except in courtrooms.


Is this true? I've lived away from Texas for a while. Working here again


There was a law passed last session that allows the AG to sue for unenforceable 30.06 signs put up by municipalities. $1,000/day for first offense and $10,000/day for every offense thereafter. Every day constitutes a separate offense.

Courts are off-limits, and 30.06 sign may be displayed without a fine. Even without 30.06 it's illegal to carry in a courtroom.

However, if the court is located in a multipurpose government building, only the court and the offices essential to the court can be posted as off-limits for carry. For instance, at Austin City Hall, there are courts, but there's also tax offices. They can't prohibit carry throughout the whole building in that case - just the areas utilized by the court.
Keep calm and carry.

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Doug.38PR
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Re: Courthouse carry legal?

Postby Doug.38PR » Thu Jan 12, 2017 9:18 pm

Isn't Waller a rural county northwest of Houston? What they doing being so AntiGun and Anti Texan?

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Jusme
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Re: Courthouse carry legal?

Postby Jusme » Fri Jan 13, 2017 7:21 am

Doug.38PR wrote:Isn't Waller a rural county northwest of Houston? What they doing being so AntiGun and Anti Texan?



Read through the thread topic, and you will see references to several questionable practices by the County DA in Waller County.
Take away the Second first, and the First is gone in a second :rules: :patriot:


Soccerdad1995
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Re: Courthouse carry legal?

Postby Soccerdad1995 » Fri Jan 13, 2017 5:45 pm

Doug.38PR wrote:Isn't Waller a rural county northwest of Houston? What they doing being so AntiGun and Anti Texan?


I think its' driven more by arrogance and not wanting to be told what to do instead of any anti-gun sentiment.
Ding dong, the witch is dead


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Doug.38PR
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Re: Courthouse carry legal?

Postby Doug.38PR » Tue Nov 14, 2017 11:17 am

Just kind of a followup. The county I was referring to in the above said post is Gaines County (Seminole). Deputy county clerk told me carry was okay. Even said a lot of them were getting ready to start carrying to work.


A few months later I went to Pecos County (Fort Stockton) and found big 30.06 and 7 signs on their doors and windows.


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