The Egg and I sign change

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Abraham
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Re: The Egg and I sign change

#16

Post by Abraham »

oohrah,

I hope you're kidding...?

If I owned a posted 30.06 business and someone walked past my 30.06 sign OCing, I just might not bother having a conversation, but instead just call the cops and let them sort it out...

I would be hard pressed to believe they came into my posted business, OCing, in order to "have a discussion"...
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E10
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Re: The Egg and I sign change

#17

Post by E10 »

Abraham wrote:If I owned a posted 30.06 business and someone walked past my 30.06 sign OCing, I just might not bother having a conversation, but instead just call the cops and let them sort it out...
Well, actually, if you don't post a 30.07, open carry is legal unless you give some other effective notice, such as a verbal notice or properly worded written notice. The cops would arrive to find no crime to investigate. Some of 'em might not appreciate you wasting their time, or being asked to do something you're supposed to do yourself (such as giving effective notice).

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Re: The Egg and I sign change

#18

Post by Abraham »

E10,

I wasn't aware...

I thought E-9, even if you're the Sergeant Major of the Army is as high as enlisted can achieve in rank, you're special...

OK, back to semantics.

Yeah, signage...if one can't understand a 30.06 sign (and believe me, I don't like them either) tells one: Guns aren't welcome here, and you Mr. Trouble Maker, whoever you are, want to create drama by OCing, because, hey, I didn't see a 30.07 sign, and I'm making a statement, yeah, if I were the business owner, just to make trouble for you too, I'd call the cops.

One of the things not allowed in the Army is (I euphemistically state): No posterior grabbing. Meaning no rough housing, no trouble making for trouble making sake. Things tend to go sideways when this childish behavior is exhibited. Thus, don't be a wise guy and OC in a 30.06 sign posted business. To do so, is rather arrogant too, kinda like the 3 letter organization's tactics, which I hope you aren't a member of or are you?

If LE shows up and you Mr. Trouble Maker, because you don't like the businesses policy will at least suffer a bit of "yikes, maybe showing my posterior isn't such a good idea after all...."
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ScottDLS
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Re: The Egg and I sign change

#19

Post by ScottDLS »

Abraham wrote:E10,

I wasn't aware...

I thought E-9, even if you're the Sergeant Major of the Army is as high as enlisted can achieve in rank, you're special...

OK, back to semantics.

Yeah, signage...if one can't understand a 30.06 sign (and believe me, I don't like them either) tells one: Guns aren't welcome here, and you Mr. Trouble Maker, whoever you are, want to create drama by OCing, because, hey, I didn't see a 30.07 sign, and I'm making a statement, yeah, if I were the business owner, just to make trouble for you too, I'd call the cops.

One of the things not allowed in the Army is (I euphemistically state): No posterior grabbing. Meaning no rough housing, no trouble making for trouble making sake. Things tend to go sideways when this childish behavior is exhibited. Thus, don't be a wise guy and OC in a 30.06 sign posted business. To do so, is rather arrogant too, kinda like the 3 letter organization's tactics, which I hope you aren't a member of or are you?

If LE shows up and you Mr. Trouble Maker, because you don't like the businesses policy will at least suffer a bit of "yikes, maybe showing my posterior isn't such a good idea after all...."
I thought Sergeant Major of the Army was the ONLY E10 in the Army. :???:
4/13/1996 Completed CHL Class, 4/16/1996 Fingerprints, Affidavits, and Application Mailed, 10/4/1996 Received CHL, renewed 1998, 2002, 2006, 2011, 2016...). "ATF... Uhhh...heh...heh....Alcohol, tobacco, and GUNS!! Cool!!!!"
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Vol Texan
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Re: The Egg and I sign change

#20

Post by Vol Texan »

ScottDLS wrote:
I thought Sergeant Major of the Army was the ONLY E10 in the Army. :???:
Nope, still an E9. (linky)

But other uses could be: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E10
Last edited by Vol Texan on Tue Mar 14, 2017 4:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Abraham
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Re: The Egg and I sign change

#21

Post by Abraham »

Yep, I stand corrected.

I learn something new every day.

As a kid, I told my older brother that and he replied: Yes, if you start out stupid enough...Nice guy he was...

OK, I at times, (now) qualify....

So, would I rather be an E-10 or a whoop-de-doo general of many stars...?

I don't know, but being of a blue collar beginning and many steps below that status, then segueing into the white collar ranks, my heart is still with the blue collar guys, but not in any liberal sense...
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ScottDLS
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Re: The Egg and I sign change

#22

Post by ScottDLS »

Vol Texan wrote:
ScottDLS wrote:
I thought Sergeant Major of the Army was the ONLY E10 in the Army. :???:
Nope, still an E9. (linky)
Oh yeah...now I remember, there is special pay for the most senior enlisted in the services, but it's not really another paygrade even though it is a "rank". :tiphat: I was going to be really impressed if we had a former Sergeant Major of the Army or Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy on the forum...
4/13/1996 Completed CHL Class, 4/16/1996 Fingerprints, Affidavits, and Application Mailed, 10/4/1996 Received CHL, renewed 1998, 2002, 2006, 2011, 2016...). "ATF... Uhhh...heh...heh....Alcohol, tobacco, and GUNS!! Cool!!!!"
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Re: The Egg and I sign change

#23

Post by oljames3 »

Vol Texan wrote:
ScottDLS wrote:
I thought Sergeant Major of the Army was the ONLY E10 in the Army. :???:
Nope, still an E9. (linky)

But other uses could be: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E10
:iagree: And, current DFAS pay charts only go to E9 for enlisted.
https://www.dfas.mil/militarymembers/pa ... harts.html
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Re: The Egg and I sign change

#24

Post by suthdj »

I am lucky my local egg & I didnt change the sign they changed the name it is now first watch an still 30.07
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Soccerdad1995
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Re: The Egg and I sign change

#25

Post by Soccerdad1995 »

Abraham wrote:E10,

I wasn't aware...

I thought E-9, even if you're the Sergeant Major of the Army is as high as enlisted can achieve in rank, you're special...

OK, back to semantics.

Yeah, signage...if one can't understand a 30.06 sign (and believe me, I don't like them either) tells one: Guns aren't welcome here, and you Mr. Trouble Maker, whoever you are, want to create drama by OCing, because, hey, I didn't see a 30.07 sign, and I'm making a statement, yeah, if I were the business owner, just to make trouble for you too, I'd call the cops.

One of the things not allowed in the Army is (I euphemistically state): No posterior grabbing. Meaning no rough housing, no trouble making for trouble making sake. Things tend to go sideways when this childish behavior is exhibited. Thus, don't be a wise guy and OC in a 30.06 sign posted business. To do so, is rather arrogant too, kinda like the 3 letter organization's tactics, which I hope you aren't a member of or are you?

If LE shows up and you Mr. Trouble Maker, because you don't like the businesses policy will at least suffer a bit of "yikes, maybe showing my posterior isn't such a good idea after all...."
As a business owner, I think you would be causing more trouble for yourself than for the LTC holder. Either the LEO is fully informed on the law and you end up getting a lecture, or the LEO is ignorant and you get a potentially major disruption to your breakfast rush.

The part of your text I bolded is tantamount to filing a false police report, since you are reporting a non-crime "just to make trouble for" someone who is a law abiding customer of yours. This is extremely childish behavior and I can't imagine any successful business owner having that attitude toward their customers.

Conversely, what "trouble" are you hoping that this behavior brings to the LTC holder who is just following the law? Most likely he (or she) will possibly be a little embarrassed, and will go somewhere else in the future. Frankly, I get more "trouble" than that on a daily basis.

As a business owner, if you don't like the idea of concealed guns on your property, put up a 30.06 sign and also make it clear that cops are not welcome (off duty LEO's can legally carry past a 30.06, but most will respect your wishes for them to go somewhere else). If you don't like visible guns, then put up a 30.07 and/or politely tell anyone OC'ing that they need to either take their weapon or themselves somewhere else. Making false police reports and "swatting" your most law abiding customers is not the best course of action, IMHO.
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Re: The Egg and I sign change

#26

Post by oohrah »

Abraham, sometimes I feel like tweaking peoples' sanctimonious beaks, as long as I'm legal.

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Abraham
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Re: The Egg and I sign change

#27

Post by Abraham »

Soccerdad1995,

If you are correct, I have to agree with your perspective...I'm not one to break the law.

Pursuing this thought exercise a bit further, as a hypothetical business owner you agree that if someone comes into your place of business, walks past your properly posted 30.06 sign, OCing as bold as brass, you'd be OK with that? Or not? Or, would you then tell the OCing interloper "OUT NOW" as you'd have every right to? Or, sure you can be nice, polite, even discreet about ejecting the offensive OCer, though I would probably not be PC about ejecting the knuckle head. (Take your protest elsewhere trouble maker)

Me, as the hypothetical business owner might just respond this way to some knuckle head who thinks he can pretend his OCing isn't childish and by OCing thinks his action would "start a dialogue". It would start a monologue very quickly by me ordering him out and if he came back with any guff, yeah, I would then call the cops and there'd be no semantics about it.

If after I ordered his OCing butt out of my business and he starts to say anything other than "yes sir" and be on his way immediately, I'd be pressing charges against him.

Man, playing the devil's advocate is fun.

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Re: The Egg and I sign change

#28

Post by Abraham »

oohrah,

If someone knows they're barging in with an unwelcome gun by walking past a 30.06 sign, then the sanctimony is being exhibited by the OCer, not the business owner. I'm gonna OC cuz I want what I want, and Mr. Business Owner must bend to my protest. He must let me in and talk to me. No, no he doesn't...

This is a fun discussion as I detest 30.06 posted signs too, but I also acknowledge the rights (however misguided I may think they are...) of business owners.

I wouldn't go strutting into a properly posted 30.06 business OCing though they didn't post a 30.07 sign.

I have enough common sense to appreciate guns in that business aren't welcome and I wouldn't insult the owner by employing the low life 3 letter organization's tactics.

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Re: The Egg and I sign change

#29

Post by Soccerdad1995 »

Abraham wrote:Soccerdad1995,

If you are correct, I have to agree with your perspective...I'm not one to break the law.

Pursuing this thought exercise a bit further, as a hypothetical business owner you agree that if someone comes into your place of business, walks past your properly posted 30.06 sign, OCing as bold as brass, you'd be OK with that? Or not? Or, would you then tell the OCing interloper "OUT NOW" as you'd have every right to? Or, sure you can be nice, polite, even discreet about ejecting the offensive OCer, though I would probably not be PC about ejecting the knuckle head. (Take your protest elsewhere trouble maker)

Me, as the hypothetical business owner might just respond this way to some knuckle head who thinks he can pretend his OCing isn't childish and by OCing thinks his action would "start a dialogue". It would start a monologue very quickly by me ordering him out and if he came back with any guff, yeah, I would then call the cops and there'd be no semantics about it.

If after I ordered his OCing butt out of my business and he starts to say anything other than "yes sir" and be on his way immediately, I'd be pressing charges against him.

Man, playing the devil's advocate is fun.
Personally, as a hypothetical business owner, I would go out of my way NOT to irritate any of my customers more than absolutely necessary. To the extent that I felt the need to limit what my customers wore, or did, I would enforce those restrictions with the least impact possible.

Here's one example. My wife and I were having dinner at a high end steakhouse in Vegas. This place has a romantic / quiet atmosphere (Prime steak at Bellagio in case anyone knows the place). A young man (20's) sits down at the table next to us, apparently waiting on his date. He then proceeded to break out his phone and watch a movie at a high enough volume that it disrupted our conversation. The movie also had plenty of cuss words. We said something to our waiter and a few minutes later, the manager approached the kid and in a polite, and quiet tone, asked him to lower the volume or put the phone away. The kid sheepishly shut off his phone. The manager didn't send casino security in to drag him away from the table, and he didn't start screaming at the guy. Because he wanted to minimize any disruption for all of his customers.

If I had a majority of my customers that were offended by guns, and I decided to appease them by "banning" guns, then I would either put up the appropriate signage, or I would instruct my staff to politely, and quietly, give verbal notice to anyone they saw carrying a gun. If the customer caused a disruption, then and only then, should they call the police. This would be my MO even if I had 30.06 / 30.07 signs clearly displayed. Why the heck would I want police approaching one of my customers while other customers are enjoying a nice meal? That would be a terrible outcome, and one that I would avoid if at all possible.

And by the way, OC'ing in and of itself is not "childish", even if there is a visible 30.06 sign. There is a reason that the legislature decided to require one sign to proactively give notice about CC, and a different sign to proactively give notice about OC. Someone who is following the law and is behaving in a calm and rational manner is not being childish*. A business owner who cuts off his nose to spite his face by causing an unnecessary scene is the one acting childish in this hypothetical.

* Conversely, I do agree that someone who comes in with an AR-15 and starts screaming and yelling about their rights is being childish and is not doing any of us any favors.
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