Gun insurance programs

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Bodeneth
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Gun insurance programs

#1

Post by Bodeneth »

I recently acquired my tx ltc. During the required handgun course we heard a lot of stories regarding issues people who carry have had to deal with, especially after using their handgun to defend them selves. While I am fully aware that the speaker telling us about all the dreadful things that can happen to someone regarding police investigations and the judicial system, was doing so to encourage us to purchase one of the insurance programs available, it does seem to be a fairly wise thing to have in your back pocket in the event one has to show or use a gun to defend them self or a loved one.

It terrifies me, when I consider how easy it would be to end up behind bars, or in the poor house, after lawfully using my gun to protect myself. Even if you are justified in using your gun, and did everything right, you never know how the scenario will end up. Therefore, I purchased a membership to one of these gun related insurance programs that provides a highly qualified and experienced attorney, bail bond money, and expert witnesses in the event I find myself in court. I did so, so coming up with thousands of dollars for lawyer retainers after finding a qualified atty asap are the last things I will have to worry about if I ever have to legally skin my weapon and drop a crook in his tracks. I can only imagine how stressful and scary such an event would be even under the best of conditions.

Im just curious how others out there feel about these services, and if many of my fellow ltc holders buy these memberships. Have any of you ever used your legal protection membership after an event happened to you?
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TexasJohnBoy
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Re: Gun insurance programs

#2

Post by TexasJohnBoy »

Have a membership with one, considering changing companies actually. Never had to use it thankfully...
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Liberty
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Re: Gun insurance programs

#3

Post by Liberty »

I don't think much about them. But I detest those who take up valuable training time to scare and sell these scams. Any instructor who sells this garbage is distorting the way things work and how Texas law works. It is very rare that a good shoot in a true self defense situation gets the shooter in legal trouble. Maybe your instructor should have spent time explaining this. Maybe your instructor should have used this valuable time explaining how one should behave after the shoot, what to say to the responding LEOs. Maybe explained some of the laws that protect us in a defencive shoot. Todays classes are very short, there is no excuse at all for making a sales pitch during a class in which you paid big dollars for. Every minute of that class is valuable.

I would be willing to bet that most of the scary examples used, did not happen in Texas. The best insurance one can have is to understand the rules. One of the best ways to learn and understand the laws and rules is to follow this forum.
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Jusme
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Re: Gun insurance programs

#4

Post by Jusme »

Liberty wrote:I don't think much about them. But I detest those who take up valuable training time to scare and sell these scams. Any instructor who sells this garbage is distorting the way things work and how Texas law works. It is very rare that a good shoot in a true self defense situation gets the shooter in legal trouble. Maybe your instructor should have spent time explaining this. Maybe your instructor should have used this valuable time explaining how one should behave after the shoot, what to say to the responding LEOs. Maybe explained some of the laws that protect us in a defencive shoot. Todays classes are very short, there is no excuse at all for making a sales pitch during a class in which you paid big dollars for. Every minute of that class is valuable.

I would be willing to bet that most of the scary examples used, did not happen in Texas. The best insurance one can have is to understand the rules. One of the best ways to learn and understand the laws and rules is to follow this forum.

:iagree:

I have looked into several of these companies, and have yet to find one that can provide actual cases where their product was needed. To each their own, but I think knowing the law, and acting within it's boundaries, will prevent almost any prosecution, for a defensive shooting. These companies, only provide legal services, they don't prevent convictions, or civil judgments. JMHO
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twomillenium
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Re: Gun insurance programs

#5

Post by twomillenium »

I thought the post was about insuring your fire arms against theft or disaster, I did not know it was about prepaid legal defense. INO for the services offered if needed, it is of good value. Check out the differences between the legal services and choose to participate or not. The fire extinguisher in my kitchen has never been used but I personally think that the cost and space it takes up is of good value. Before we were forced to pay for volunteer fire departments, I gave generous amounts because I thought that if I ever needed them, it would be of good value to help protect my assets, even if it were the neighbors that needed them.
I am an instructor and the only thing I mention in class is that I would be glad to talk about it in detail after class was over. You can not sign up for these services during my class. That is just the way I run.
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thatguyoverthere
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Re: Gun insurance programs

#6

Post by thatguyoverthere »

It was not pushed in my CHL class several years ago. It was, however, something that I eventually decided to add for myself several months after I first began carrying. I know many folks don't think it's needed, but in today's environment, I just decided that I did want it.

My advice if you do decide to purchase one of these products would be to shop around. From what I saw when I was investigating, there are (at least) two different types of services: a. pre-paid legal services to help in criminal and/or civil defense, or b. insurance coverage to pay for monetary judgments brought against you. And there is lots of variation between different companies offering the same type service.

Personally, I chose a pre-paid legal service.

Again, take note of the different levels of service and benefits. I was unable to find any actual historical cases with incident details from any of the companies that I investigated. So all I had to go on was their terms of service. But, there is a lot of information there in the fine print - look at it carefully, and especially take note of what is NOT listed in those details.

Good luck with your search.
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Noggin
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Re: Gun insurance programs

#7

Post by Noggin »

When I did my LTC course our instructor told us to consider the legal consequences and possible costs involved. He said we should consider making some form of arrangement to cover ourselves but he did not suggest any particular firm. He said he just kept a lawyer on retainer. I looked around at various options including "Texas Law-Shield", "US Concealed Carry Assoc" etc. I eventually settled on CCW Safe. They seemed to suit my needs but I have yet to call on their services. I suggest you run a search on this site because this topic has been discussed before at great length on this forum.

I think the critical point is always going to be how much cash on hand are you going to be able to maintain. If you can afford to do so then some scheme whereby you pay the legal costs and then subsequently claim those back from insurance may be best. However if that is simply not an option then going with one of the other previously mentioned services is all you can do. As many people have said before this is not like car insurance the number of verifiable cases to review is pretty thin and difficult to compare.
Last edited by Noggin on Mon May 29, 2017 10:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Odiferous
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Re: Gun insurance programs

#8

Post by Odiferous »

I don't pay a monthly fee for a lawyer to defend me against wrongful prosecution in a shooting. Nor do I for arson, theft, assault, or anything else.

Will I seek qualified help to lead my defense if such a situation arises? Absolutely. But I don't see the odds of needing that help or the risk of its cost being significantly higher than with situations that aren't covered by those services.

skeathley
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Re: Gun insurance programs

#9

Post by skeathley »

I provide info on two companies in my student packets, but do not try to sell anything. I have coverage, pay for it myself, and would never walk out the door with a gun without having it. I also have fire insurance on my home, but have never used it in 40 years.

The issue is not whether you might be taken to trial; the issue is, how long does it take for the DA to make that decision? Even a justifiable use of deadly force, with witnesses, can take 3 months for a resolution (witness changed their story, evidence was misplaced). During that time, you need a lawyer to protect your rights, and that bill could be quite high.

If you think that is an over-abundance of caution, fine. I've been around long enough to know that things don't always work out like they should.

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rotor
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Re: Gun insurance programs

#10

Post by rotor »

Many sources for these plans including The NRA sponsoring one. Most of the complaints have been that selling one in a CHL class may be unethical. You can search the internet and I doubt that you will find any stories about people actually using the service probably because most people that have the plans are not involved in shootings, just the way statistics run. What I can say though is that they provide a very good source of info on what to do if you are involved in a shooting. I have an excellent book provided by one of those services which is quite detailed. If you read every post on this forum you may get the same info but that would be tedious. Having an attorney already hired just in case is not reasonable. How does one know that he is capable at LTC type defense?

For the person that believes that a "clean shoot" will immunize them from the legal system I have a bridge in Brooklyn for sale. I prefer having a card in my wallet with a phone number to call immediately after 911 just in case there is a use of your firearm. Hopefully they are experts as they claim to be. From the quality of their book and literature they appear to know their stuff but I am a layman and not an attorney.

parabelum
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Re: Gun insurance programs

#11

Post by parabelum »

Choose what suits you the best. If you feel like you don't need it, then great. If, on the other hand, you feel like it would be wise, especially in our litigious society, go for it.


Lord forbid you have to use your weapon in self defense, whatever you think you did right, do yourself and your family a favor and do not talk to police or anyone until you talk to legal counsel first. Use your right to remain silent! :rules:
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LucasMcCain
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Re: Gun insurance programs

#12

Post by LucasMcCain »

I use one of the pre paid services. It's worth it for me just for peace of mind. Part of that decision is that I open carry a lot, including while riding my motorcycle. All it takes is one road raging lunatic or MDA nut to get annoyed at me and call the cops, saying "he was waving his gun around" and I'm going to need a lawyer. I don't intend to ever use my weapon in a way that is not justified, but people lie. I've been in auto accidents where I did nothing wrong, but the other person lied about what happened, and my insurance had to pay for part of the damages. Thinking that this can't happen in a defensive gun use is a bit naive. I read a story a while ago about a guy that saw a man beating his girlfriend and intervened. Later the girlfriend lied and said she wasn't getting hit and the CHL was just trying to rob them, or something along those lines.
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Re: Gun insurance programs

#13

Post by Abraham »

How many of you that have pre-paid legal ..., (I'm not going to call it insurance) are certain of all costs that may accrue that ISN'T covered?

Are you certain you're getting a good deal or a mystery that will only reveal itself only if you have to use it?

Read the fine print and if you can't/don't understand it, consider getting it reviewed by an unbiased legal expert.

You may find you're paying a huge premium for little coverage...
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WildBill
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Re: Gun insurance programs

#14

Post by WildBill »

Abraham wrote:How many of you that have pre-paid legal ..., (I'm not going to call it insurance) are certain of all costs that may accrue that ISN'T covered?

Are you certain you're getting a good deal or a mystery that will only reveal itself only if you have to use it?

Read the fine print and if you can't/don't understand it, consider getting it reviewed by an unbiased legal expert.

You may find you're paying a huge premium for little coverage...
:iagree: It is NOT insurance. The contract states that it is not insurance.
I wish people would stop calling it that.
When I checked into it the company would not provide a copy of the contract until I signed up for the service.
I thought that was very strange coming from a group of lawyers.
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MechAg94
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Re: Gun insurance programs

#15

Post by MechAg94 »

Abraham wrote:How many of you that have pre-paid legal ..., (I'm not going to call it insurance) are certain of all costs that may accrue that ISN'T covered?

Are you certain you're getting a good deal or a mystery that will only reveal itself only if you have to use it?

Read the fine print and if you can't/don't understand it, consider getting it reviewed by an unbiased legal expert.

You may find you're paying a huge premium for little coverage...
What they will NOT cover is always an issue. It is an issue with any insurance you buy whether you call it insurance or not. You have to decide if you can trust the group enough to be there for you when you need them. If you prefer to line up a local lawyer to call and set aside money for it, that is a good plan also. IMO, the cost of these plans are not all that much compared to what I spend on guns and ammo each year.

IMO, the benefit is to have a lawyer on your side from the get go so that all your ducks are lined up and the local prosecutor is never tempted to take it to trial. Evidence gets missed or lost, criminals lie, video gets destroyed, CHL holders misspeak, police don't believe you or misinterpret your words, etc, etc. Lots of reasons why a good shoot can get treated as a bad shoot by the LEO's and prosecutors. If you read enough stories, you hear about circumstances where innocent people get run through the ringer.

The aftermath of cases is not always published. I imagine most people don't want the details of their shoot put in advertising. It makes them a target. I heard a lawyer speak who does work with [Pre-paid legal service] and she described one case in some detail about a guy who managed to say the wrong things to the police. I have read about another unrelated story (not in Texas) where a guy nearly got run through trial if not for a missed 911 call from a witness that was finally uncovered. The guy who runs the Armed Polite Society podcast got into a bad situation last year where no gun was pulled, but the other guy called 911 and lied to the police so he ended up in jail and under threat of prosecution. He was in jail for 4 days before he could arrange bail. He is now working extra to pay off the $30,000+ that it set him back. It is rare, but it does happen.

I don't want to defend any particular company, but I think it is a worthwhile service (potentially). I agree the sales tactics I have heard about are not good, but I haven't heard anyone say that company has failed to support someone they should have either. What will really test these services is something like a Zimmerman shooting that becomes politically charged. If one of the companies gets hit with that and stands by their client, that will go a long way to building trust.
Last edited by MechAg94 on Tue May 30, 2017 11:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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