New to state and applying for Texas CHL

[GunRights21]

I moved to Texas a few years ago from NYS were gun laws are ridiculous. I know of the mandatory 5 year wait for a misdemeanor Driving under the influence conviction requirement, which has passed a few months ago. I was arrested on DWI suspicion but blew a 0.0 but they wanted to bring me in for drug testing since I had gotten into an accident in the ditch and was clearly disorientated. After 2 years of adjournments and waiting for the lab results, I had traces of my prescription Ambien in my system which qualifies for DWAI on Drugs, an unclassified Misdemeanor punishable by less than a year in prison and less than $1000 fine in NYS. I plead guilty, was fined $900 and 6 months revoked license and access to work only license privileges.

Around the same year a few months prior, I was arrested in Georgia for DWI and went to trial and found not guilty. A few months after the New York arrest, I was again arrested by another police precinct and blew a .04, and given a vehicle traffic summons where I accepted a $200 fine and 6 month ACD(Adjournment in Contemplation of Dismissal) which drops the charge after 6 months. This all happened in 2010 and the guilty plea of DWAI while impaired by Drugs was convicted in 2012.

Would it be safer to wait another year or two to show I do not have a substance abuse problem or are they required by law to only use my 2012 conviction or can they use the arrests as a pattern for substance abuse. I don't want to be denied which I figure will make it impossible to apply again even in 20 years. Does the Traffic Violation count as a conviction in which I am banned for 10 years? Not looking for judgement I know the dangers of Ambien now and never get behind the wheel or touch my firearms after any drinks. It's something I'd like but don't "need" even if I have to wait 5 more years. Thank you ahead of time for your advice.

[Bodeneth]

I am not a lawyer, but figgered it wouldnt hurt to toss in my observations.

You are right to be concerned about taking all your arrests into consideration. Ive read several stories that people posted about their arrest records, and it can be a real pain in the rump.

What I would advise is to compile all your arrest and dispositions in an orderly manner and give it a shot, since its been over 5 yrs since your last arrest. Just be aware that its highly likely that your application will be one of those that takes forever and a day to process, since they will likely toy around with requiring you to interact with the medical board to determine if you have been drug free for years.

Personally, I dont feel that waiting another year to apply will help you any. Any judgement they issue today will likely be the same judgement you'd get in a year. But who knows which direction it'll go. Ive seen cases where someone with one arrest is dragged out for months, and cases where someone with multiple arrests are approved in 35 days. Its a crap shoot I suspect. I guess it all boils down to the mood of the person processing your application. Just make sure you have all the info on every arrest and see what happens.

As I mentioned earlier, approach the process patiently and plan for it to take 60+ days to get thru it. Go post in the waiting room forum here and keep track of your timeframe. By updating it as you progress, others in a similar situation will learn from your adventure, as you may learn from theirs. Good luck to you!

[Keith B]

You may need to wait until 10 years after your original conviction disposition

GC §411.172. ELIGIBILITY
.........
(c) An individual who has been convicted two times within the 10-year period
preceding the date on which the person applies for a license of an offense of
the grade of Class B misdemeanor or greater that involves the use of alcohol
or a controlled substance as a statutory element of the offense is a chemically
dependent person for purposes of this section and is not qualified to receive
a license under this subchapter. This subsection does not preclude the
disqualification of an individual for being a chemically dependent person if other
evidence exists to show that the person is a chemically dependent person.

However, if you received differed adjudication as you mentioned, depending on how New York handles it, it may be removed totally from your record. I would suggest you contact the court clerk in the locations you were arrested and ask for certified dispositions of the cases. You will need these anyway to apply. if they don't show any record, ask for a certified letter stating they show no arrests/convictions.

[GunRights21]

Thank you so much for your replies but it's not the convictions that I'm worried about. The only criminal(Misdemeanor) conviction was for the DWAI on my prescription drug over 5 years ago. The other two were a traffic violation and an outright not guilty dismissal which I can get documentation for. I'm more worried about the timing of the arrests in such a short period of time will give the reviewer the basis to use it as evidence of being a chemically dependent person to reject my application. These days it's an arrest that counts almost as much as convictions.

Boneth helpfully replied that it may be a crapshoot depending on the mood of the reviewer since it has been 5 years and is subject to their personal discretion I assume, since it doesn't give any guidelines in the section to deem the person chemically dependent except for criminal convictions, alcohol, substance abuse treatment, and forced medical evaluations. Seems arbitrary at that point up to the reviewers.

The only issue I have with being denied is the effect it will have on future applications as I'm patient and can even wait 3-5 additional years if necessary to prove I am not a chemically dependent. I was also considering getting a medical evaluation from a certified substance abuse professional as documented evidence.

I actually hardly carried when I did have a license in New York but got one to own a pistol and grandfathered should the liberal anti-gun agenda take over, which it finally did with the unconstitutional SAFE Act. Prompted my move to the great state of Texas! I'm like a kid in a candy store!

[skeathley]

Just to clarify, the 5 year window does not start at arrest or conviction, but at final disposition. As long as you are on probation, or under jurisdiction of the court, the clock has not yet started. That 6 month license restriction may add on to the 5 years.

[ScottDLS]

Just to clarify, the 5 year window does not start at arrest or conviction, but at final disposition. As long as you are on probation, or under jurisdiction of the court, the clock has not yet started. That 6 month license restriction may add on to the 5 years.

That is wrong. In the case of a conviction, that IS the final disposition, unless it it is later overturned, pardoned or expunged. So if you got convicted for a Class A misdemeanor and served 1 year in jail, you don't have to wait 6 years (until one year after you got out). Five years from the date of conviction. You could theoretically have your Drivers License revoked for life and still get a LTC (assuming no felony convictions).

[RoyGBiv]

I suggest you re-read Keith's post.... He's pointing out that it may be a 10-year wait IF.... IF... the NY deferred adjudication is counted as a "conviction" by Texas authorities. It depends on the particulars of the case and how NY law about such things compares to TX law... IF... IF Texas determines that the deferred adjudication is a conviction by Texas definition, the OP will need to wait 10 years from the date of his last conviction.

2 disqualifying misdemeanors in a small window can bump the ineligibility period to 10 years from date of last conviction.

It's my understanding that the clock starts when the conviction is entered. NOT when the sentence has finished being served.

IANAL. Just my opinion. I stayed at a Doubletree last night, not a Holiday Inn, so, you have been warned.

[GunRights21]

Thank you, but to clarify again, the second arrest was not a Misdemeanor in NY or any other state unless you are a commercial driver in which the legal limit is .04. Any other citizen, anything under a .08 is a Traffic violation, does not go on your criminal history, only driving history as would any other traffic violation and expunged in 5 years. I'll call the DPS for advice as well as legal advice and report my findings to help others who are interested in what I find out.

I wouldn't mind taking one for the team and applying as it seems according to the conviction statute I am covered but the interpretation of the chemically dependent is fuzzy and up to the reviewer's discretion. I've heard conflicting reports that a denial will preclude another application for 3 years and also heard could be permanent. If it is 3 years than I would try because I was already considering waiting 3-5 years to apply to "prove" I am not chemically dependent and 2010 was an aberration and not a pattern. If a denial is permanent and will be used against me in future applications than I'd rather wait.

I've decided trying to get a substance abuse counselor's certification is a waste since they are even more predisposed to believing you are dependent so I would have to pay out of my own pocket for the expensive sessions, they would require expensive testing weekly so the cost could run over $1000 and months of testing and sessions to get them to certify me. Probably why they rely on addicts being forced to see them as opposed to volunteers. Not that I do not respect the profession, I know addicts and it is a problem to be taken seriously.

Off my soapbox, so it will depend on the repercussions of failure on whether I wait. Though you never get a date unless your brave enough to ask.

[Keith B]

Thank you, but to clarify again, the second arrest was not a Misdemeanor in NY or any other state unless you are a commercial driver in which the legal limit is .04. Any other citizen, anything under a .08 is a Traffic violation, does not go on your criminal history, only driving history as would any other traffic violation and expunged in 5 years. I'll call the DPS for advice as well as legal advice and report my findings to help others who are interested in what I find out.

So was this a Zero Tolerance violation as you were under 21? As you stated, unless you have a CDL, then the only other violation for that BAC of .04 in New York is ZT.

[GunRights21]

No, I do not hold a Commercial Driver's License nor a minor so it was just a Traffic Violation.
The facts are in order of importance in 2010:
1. Misdemeanor DWAI on prescription drugs. 5 years ago( including the 6 month suspension.)Passed the 6 month suspension from 2012).
2, DUI arrest found not guilty in Atlanta, GA.(Disposed 4/12/2012)
3. DUI arrest in town of Gates, NY blowing .04 for a non CDL or Zero Tolerance for minors resulting in Traffic Violation charges paid and ajuducated as per traffic violation process, only with normal traffic violations, expunged after 5, or is it 1.5 years?, anyways since it was a DUI traffic infraction the ACD was set at 6 months. I am good there.

Any other year besides 2010 and I would have no criminal or history of substance abuse.

Your laws are much less stringent. Before the SAFE act, in my city they needed 5 referrals from homeowners, excluding police officers, to ensure no meddling, and required not to even touch your paperwork at least for 9 months(inside information from my police sergeant friend).

Now with the SAFE act, you have to pay for a background check whether you buy one bullet or 1000. They also have confiscated guns from law abiding citizens with no criminal record but illegally obtained their health records and a poor guy had to go to court to get his gun back just because he was prescribed low doses of Xanax for anxiety. Easy overturning and the State troopers were reprimanded by the state's courts for overreaching but goes back to my original point of authorities having wide discretion of interpreting the law if not given clear guidelines. The whole purpose of law is to define those guidelines, but give the leeway to interpret, say in my case, there was only one Misdemeanor conviction in that year but there were two other arrests that could be interpreted as a pattern of substance abuse, it's now arbitrary and depending on the mood of the reviewer as stated earlier.

[ScottDLS]

Just apply after 9/1 and it'll only be $40. If you have an issue, get a AZ license.

[GunRights21]

ScottDLS,
That is GREAT advice!! I reviewed their requirements and they aren't as vague on the definition of "Chemically dependent" as the Texas subsection and follow the federal requirements to determine Chemical dependency. With reciprocity, I think I will apply first for the Arizona license which I'm qualified for without the arbitrary judgement in the Texas law. Once I get that, I will attempt for the Texas CHL which will be so much cheaper after September. This is a great forum to exchange and disperse information for us second amendment backers. Thank you all!!