UCW in a 51% location

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nimravus01
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UCW in a 51% location

Postby nimravus01 » Thu Aug 03, 2017 9:45 pm

I've just been made privy to a case of UCW in a 51% location by license holder in my area. This happened today. The preliminary info is that the defendant is a member of a certain fraternal organization. This organization owns and operates a lodge that is licenced by the TABC as a 51% location. The defendant (and probably a lot of other members of this lodge) regularly carries his pistol on the premises. He and another member got into a verbal altercation. Not a physical one. I don't know what the altercation was about, but, the other guy knew that the defendant carries his pistol and called the cops. Now the defendant is at the jail for felony UCW and has a $30,000 bond set. That's all the info I have at the moment. I will keep track of the case and follow up when more info becomes available.

Moral of the story: 1. Don't carry into 51% place even if it is a member's only lodge; 2. Be careful who you let know that you are carrying because they can use that against you; 3. Don't get into fights with people while you are carrying, see point #2.


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Re: UCW in a 51% location

Postby twomillenium » Thu Aug 03, 2017 11:33 pm

I can think of a Forrest Gump quote that applies to this story.
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Re: UCW in a 51% location

Postby C-dub » Thu Aug 03, 2017 11:43 pm

That's pretty low. I wonder how much longer that guy will be a member of that fraternal order. :totap:
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Re: UCW in a 51% location

Postby bblhd672 » Fri Aug 04, 2017 8:56 am

nimravus01 wrote:Don't carry into 51% place.


If the state has entrusted you with a CHL/LTC, obey the laws about where you can legally carry. :nono: The location/owner/licensee and whether or not anyone else is breaking the law is irrelevant. As CHL/LTC holders, we are to be examples of lawful behavior when carrying.

This guy (or guys if there were more than one CHL/LTC holder illegally carrying in the lodge) has beaned our community with an inside fastball. :banghead:
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Re: UCW in a 51% location

Postby nimravus01 » Fri Aug 04, 2017 12:22 pm

According to the jail that he is in, the charge is PC 46.02 (c)/ Unlawful carrying weapon on alcohol premises. Third degree felony.

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Re: UCW in a 51% location

Postby WildBill » Fri Aug 04, 2017 12:47 pm

nimravus01 wrote:According to the jail that he is in, the charge is PC 46.02 (c)/ Unlawful carrying weapon on alcohol premises. Third degree felony.

Thank you for the post. I will be very interested in the outcome of this case.
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Re: UCW in a 51% location

Postby ScottDLS » Fri Aug 04, 2017 1:18 pm

WildBill wrote:
nimravus01 wrote:According to the jail that he is in, the charge is PC 46.02 (c)/ Unlawful carrying weapon on alcohol premises. Third degree felony.

Thank you for the post. I will be very interested in the outcome of this case.



If he has a LTC, they will no doubt amend that to 46.035b-1...which is still a felony. I wonder if there was a properly posted 51% sign. If not he will have a Defense to raise.
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Re: UCW in a 51% location

Postby Lynyrd » Fri Aug 04, 2017 1:43 pm

This story is sad on so many levels.

He ignored the rules. :nono: :rules:
The person he was arguing with used the rules to cause him harm. :grumble
He made us all look bad as if any LTC holder might ignore the rules. :mad5
If he gets convicted, he will then be a felon with the associated loss of privileges. :cryin
I doubt the subject of the argument was worthy of this kind of consequences. :headscratch
Alcohol was likely involved. :nono:

Follow the rules people! :deadhorse:
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Re: UCW in a 51% location

Postby TexasCajun » Fri Aug 04, 2017 3:26 pm

ScottDLS wrote:
WildBill wrote:
nimravus01 wrote:According to the jail that he is in, the charge is PC 46.02 (c)/ Unlawful carrying weapon on alcohol premises. Third degree felony.

Thank you for the post. I will be very interested in the outcome of this case.



If he has a LTC, they will no doubt amend that to 46.035b-1...which is still a felony. I wonder if there was a properly posted 51% sign. If not he will have a Defense to raise.

It'll be an uphill battle even if the location was improperly posted or wasn't posted at all. The charge isn't for walking past a 51% sign, it's for being in possession of a handgun in a 51% location.
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Re: UCW in a 51% location

Postby G.A. Heath » Fri Aug 04, 2017 3:37 pm

TexasCajun wrote:
ScottDLS wrote:
WildBill wrote:
nimravus01 wrote:According to the jail that he is in, the charge is PC 46.02 (c)/ Unlawful carrying weapon on alcohol premises. Third degree felony.

Thank you for the post. I will be very interested in the outcome of this case.



If he has a LTC, they will no doubt amend that to 46.035b-1...which is still a felony. I wonder if there was a properly posted 51% sign. If not he will have a Defense to raise.

It'll be an uphill battle even if the location was improperly posted or wasn't posted at all. The charge isn't for walking past a 51% sign, it's for being in possession of a handgun in a 51% location.


if the location was not properly posted he has a defense to prosecution in 46.035(k) which reads "It is a defense to prosecution under Subsection (b)(1) that the actor was not given effective notice under Section 411.204, Government Code."
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Re: UCW in a 51% location

Postby WildBill » Fri Aug 04, 2017 3:44 pm

G.A. Heath wrote:
TexasCajun wrote:
ScottDLS wrote:
WildBill wrote:
nimravus01 wrote:According to the jail that he is in, the charge is PC 46.02 (c)/ Unlawful carrying weapon on alcohol premises. Third degree felony.

Thank you for the post. I will be very interested in the outcome of this case.



If he has a LTC, they will no doubt amend that to 46.035b-1...which is still a felony. I wonder if there was a properly posted 51% sign. If not he will have a Defense to raise.

It'll be an uphill battle even if the location was improperly posted or wasn't posted at all. The charge isn't for walking past a 51% sign, it's for being in possession of a handgun in a 51% location.


if the location was not properly posted he has a defense to prosecution in 46.035(k) which reads "It is a defense to prosecution under Subsection (b)(1) that the actor was not given effective notice under Section 411.204, Government Code."

I wonder if the person who called the police told the other person that he was going to report him.
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Re: UCW in a 51% location

Postby nimravus01 » Fri Aug 04, 2017 3:51 pm

ScottDLS wrote:If he has a LTC, they will no doubt amend that to 46.035b-1...which is still a felony. I wonder if there was a properly posted 51% sign. If not he will have a Defense to raise.

I've been there before. I'm pretty sure it's properly posted. I might have to swing by there and double check. Either way, it's pretty clearly a bar.


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Re: UCW in a 51% location

Postby Salty1 » Fri Aug 04, 2017 4:05 pm

Sounds to me that the individual felt that the rules and laws did not apply to him and very well may pay the prive for not following them. One thing that is clearly obvious is that the person who reported him should never be trusted and will do anything to win.....


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Re: UCW in a 51% location

Postby steveincowtown » Fri Aug 04, 2017 4:46 pm

bblhd672 wrote:
nimravus01 wrote:Don't carry into 51% place.


If the state has entrusted you with a CHL/LTC, obey the laws about where you can legally carry. :nono: The location/owner/licensee and whether or not anyone else is breaking the law is irrelevant. As CHL/LTC holders, we are to be examples of lawful behavior when carrying.

This guy (or guys if there were more than one CHL/LTC holder illegally carrying in the lodge) has beaned our community with an inside fastball. :banghead:


Shame on him for not following the rules. Shame on us for thinking the state has "entrusted us" with the God given right to defend, when is reaffirmed by the 2A. Licensing= when someone takes your rights an then sells them back to you. Carry in bars shouldn't be illegal, (IMHO) carrying while drinking shouldn't be illegal. If you commit a crime while doing either of the two it should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.
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Re: UCW in a 51% location

Postby Keith B » Fri Aug 04, 2017 4:50 pm

ScottDLS wrote:
WildBill wrote:
nimravus01 wrote:According to the jail that he is in, the charge is PC 46.02 (c)/ Unlawful carrying weapon on alcohol premises. Third degree felony.

Thank you for the post. I will be very interested in the outcome of this case.



If he has a LTC, they will no doubt amend that to 46.035b-1...which is still a felony. I wonder if there was a properly posted 51% sign. If not he will have a Defense to raise.


I agree. People miss the fact that 46.15 states that 46.02 does not apply to a person that is licensed to carry a handgun.

Sec. 46.15. NONAPPLICABILITY.
(b) Section 46.02 does not apply to a person who:
.....
(6) is carrying:
(A) a license issued under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, to carry a handgun; and
(B) a handgun:
(i) in a concealed manner; or
(ii) in a shoulder or belt holster;


In this case, 46.035 would kick in. HOWEVER, he could have an out IF he met the conditions of 46.15 here

(7) holds an alcoholic beverage permit or license or is an employee of a holder of an alcoholic beverage permit or license if the person is supervising the operation of the permitted or licensed premises;
......
(A) on the immediate premises where the activity is conducted;


As a member of the lodge, if he was tending bar or one of the people in control of dispensing liquor at the lodge, then he may have a defense.
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