UCW & Gang members Follow the "I dont know what I dont know" ball

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E.Marquez
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Re: UCW & Gang members Follow the "I dont know what I dont know" ball

Postby E.Marquez » Tue Aug 15, 2017 8:17 pm

5thGenTexan wrote:Ahhh the Bandidos can't possibly be a street gang

I get that MC is kind of a no brain-er..
But the question is the same.
Is there a listing of "clubs" "groups" or what ever you want to call them that Texas has determined to meet the "street Gang" legal definition. :tiphat:
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Re: UCW & Gang members Follow the "I dont know what I dont know" ball

Postby nightmare69 » Tue Aug 15, 2017 8:43 pm

Are the Cossacks listed as well?
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Re: UCW & Gang members Follow the "I dont know what I dont know" ball

Postby WTR » Tue Aug 15, 2017 8:47 pm

E.Marquez wrote:
WTR wrote:They were arrested in TX. 4 on cycles and one in a truck. Where does the MPV take effect.

On the motorcycle and in the truck.... But that is the obvious and simple answer, so either i don't understand your question or you were being rhetorical :tiphat:


Are they permitted to carry in the truck and on (bags)their vehicles (motorcycles). I'm clear on the truck but not a cycle.
Last edited by WTR on Tue Aug 15, 2017 9:25 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: UCW & Gang members Follow the "I dont know what I dont know" ball

Postby Jusme » Tue Aug 15, 2017 8:47 pm

E.Marquez wrote:
5thGenTexan wrote:Ahhh the Bandidos can't possibly be a street gang

I get that MC is kind of a no brain-er..
But the question is the same.
Is there a listing of "clubs" "groups" or what ever you want to call them that Texas has determined to meet the "street Gang" legal definition. :tiphat:



This is along the same line as my question. While the Banditos, have been named as a group, associated with organized criminal activity, in news stories, do they fall under the definition of an organized street gang, according to Texas statute? I am fully aware of their activities, and exploits, over the years, and I am never going to defend them, but arresting LTC holders, who are members, seems akin to, the terrorist watch list. How would you know you are on it, if it is not known to the general public? Again, I am not a defender of the banditos, or any other group so intimately associated with criminal activity, but how easily can someone else be secretly classified as a member of a criminal street gang?
Just playing devils advocate.
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Re: UCW & Gang members Follow the "I dont know what I dont know" ball

Postby ScottDLS » Tue Aug 15, 2017 9:17 pm

There is no prohibition on getting an LTC or carrying under LTC while being a member of a criminal street gang. Unless you have been convicted of a crime or fail other criteria to get a LTC, you may get one.

If Banditos are a criminal street gang, then they may not carry under MPA. The solution for those Banditos that qualify is that they get a LTC. :biggrinjester:
4/13/1996 Completed CHL Class, 4/16/1996 Fingerprints, Affidavits, and Application Mailed, 10/4/1996 Received CHL, renewed 1998, 2002, 2006, 2011, 2016...). "ATF... Uhhh...heh...heh....Alcohol, tobacco, and GUNS!! Cool!!!!"

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Re: UCW & Gang members Follow the "I dont know what I dont know" ball

Postby nightmare69 » Tue Aug 15, 2017 9:54 pm

Jusme wrote:
E.Marquez wrote:
5thGenTexan wrote:Ahhh the Bandidos can't possibly be a street gang

I get that MC is kind of a no brain-er..
But the question is the same.
Is there a listing of "clubs" "groups" or what ever you want to call them that Texas has determined to meet the "street Gang" legal definition. :tiphat:



This is along the same line as my question. While the Banditos, have been named as a group, associated with organized criminal activity, in news stories, do they fall under the definition of an organized street gang, according to Texas statute? I am fully aware of their activities, and exploits, over the years, and I am never going to defend them, but arresting LTC holders, who are members, seems akin to, the terrorist watch list. How would you know you are on it, if it is not known to the general public? Again, I am not a defender of the banditos, or any other group so intimately associated with criminal activity, but how easily can someone else be secretly classified as a member of a criminal street gang?
Just playing devils advocate.


I don't agree with it one bit but the law allows those who are affiliated with a gang can get a LTC. The 1% patch and LTC should never go together. They shouldn't be able to get downwind of a firearm much less have a license to carry it. Just my opinion. The ones who have a LTC are the same ones who participate in Toys for Tots and other good charitable organizations. The "clean crew" they are known as purpose is to show they public they are good people and many take the bait.
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Re: UCW & Gang members Follow the "I dont know what I dont know" ball

Postby ScottDLS » Tue Aug 15, 2017 10:05 pm

Why just make it illegal carry under MPA if you're in a 'illegal street gang'? Why not make it illegal to be in a gang? Then we could arrest them all. Maybe it should be illegal for them to assemble or speak to one another... :confused5
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Re: UCW & Gang members Follow the "I dont know what I dont know" ball

Postby E.Marquez » Tue Aug 15, 2017 10:17 pm

ScottDLS wrote:There is no prohibition on getting an LTC or carrying under LTC while being a member of a criminal street gang. Unless you have been convicted of a crime or fail other criteria to get a LTC, you may get one.

If Banditos are a criminal street gang, then they may not carry under MPA. The solution for those Banditos that qualify is that they get a LTC. :biggrinjester:

https://www.dps.texas.gov/InternetForms ... TC-78A.pdf

I stand corrected, I thought I remembered a check box for "Have you lately dismembered a body as part of a criminal gang" YES NO
Or words to that effect. :biggrinjester:

I guess they figure the background check covers the need, vice the self admitted "not in a gang" status a person carrying under MPA would need.
Strange for sure...
But that revelation makes me ask...If the report I read is correct and some of those arrested had an LTC, why were they charged with UCW because they were gang members?
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Re: UCW & Gang members Follow the "I dont know what I dont know" ball

Postby jmorris » Tue Aug 15, 2017 10:22 pm

E.Marquez wrote:
5thGenTexan wrote:Ahhh the Bandidos can't possibly be a street gang

I get that MC is kind of a no brain-er..
But the question is the same.
Is there a listing of "clubs" "groups" or what ever you want to call them that Texas has determined to meet the "street Gang" legal definition. :tiphat:


Yes, but you don't have access to it unless you're a law enforcement agency.

" The Texas Gang Investigative Database, or TxGang, is an online intelligence database available for all levels of law enforcement to track gang members. Any local, state, or federal law enforcement agency who engages in the administration of criminal justice is permitted to use TxGang."

https://www.dps.texas.gov/txgangs/txgangoverview.pdf
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Re: UCW & Gang members Follow the "I dont know what I dont know" ball

Postby WTR » Tue Aug 15, 2017 10:35 pm

TX DPS classifies them as a tier two gang.


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Re: UCW & Gang members Follow the "I dont know what I dont know" ball

Postby swilkes » Wed Aug 16, 2017 6:01 am

could they have gotten their LTC before being a BANDIDO?


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Re: UCW & Gang members Follow the "I dont know what I dont know" ball

Postby jason812 » Wed Aug 16, 2017 7:56 am

https://www.dps.texas.gov/director_staff/media_and_communications/2015/txGangThreatAssessment.pdf

From 2015 but clearly lists the Bandidos as a street gang.

Tier 2: Bandidos Outlaw Motorcycle Gang
Formed in the 1960s, the Bandidos Outlaw Motorcycle Gang
(OMG) tends to conduct its illegal activities as covertly as
possible and has historically avoided high-profile activities,
such as drive-by shootings, that many street gangs tend to
commit. However, members are not covert about making
their presence known, frequently wearing their gang colors,
insignia, and riding in large groups. They have sought to turn
public sentiment in their favor by organizing frequent charity
runs. Bandidos are likely to focus on recruiting new members
with no criminal history.


Ongoing Conflict Involving Bandidos Outlaw Motorcycle Gang in Texas
On May 17, 2015, a violent confrontation involving the Bandidos outlaw motorcycle gang and members
of other motorcycle clubs at a restaurant in Waco, Texas, resulted in the death of nine people and injuries
to at least 20. Details of the incident remain under investigation, though the violent conflict occurred in
the context of increasing tension between Bandidos and several other groups, most notably the Cossacks
MC.
The conflict between the Bandidos and the Cossacks appears to have originated from territorial disputes.
Cossacks members have recently started wearing the Texas patch on the bottom of their vests without the
approval of the Bandidos. Traditionally, the Bandidos have been the dominant motorcycle club in Texas,
and thus no other club is allowed to wear the Texas patch without their consent. The incident in Waco
was preceded by a series of violent incidents reportedly associated with the Bandidos. The majority of
these incidents occurred in the northern half of the state.
This conflict and the violent incident in Waco highlight the public safety threat posed by gangs and gang
rivalries. Law enforcement continues to monitor the conflict involving these groups due to the potential
for additional violence or further escalations.

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Re: UCW & Gang members Follow the "I dont know what I dont know" ball

Postby E.Marquez » Wed Aug 16, 2017 8:14 am

swilkes wrote:could they have gotten their LTC before being a BANDIDO?

Does not seem to matter.
LTC licensing process has no "gang" question to answer, and seems limited to convictions and mental health issues, plus domestic stuff.
So while carrying under MPA has a gang membership prohibition, it looks like LTC does not.

I have to wounder if that was intentional or an oversight?
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Re: UCW & Gang members Follow the "I dont know what I dont know" ball

Postby E.Marquez » Wed Aug 16, 2017 8:19 am

Ahh, reading is fundamental.. I missed the members home of record "New Mexico"
So the likelihood of having a Texas LTC is ummm, none or less.


E.Marquez wrote:
ScottDLS wrote:There is no prohibition on getting an LTC or carrying under LTC while being a member of a criminal street gang. Unless you have been convicted of a crime or fail other criteria to get a LTC, you may get one.

If Banditos are a criminal street gang, then they may not carry under MPA. The solution for those Banditos that qualify is that they get a LTC. :biggrinjester:

https://www.dps.texas.gov/InternetForms ... TC-78A.pdf

I stand corrected, I thought I remembered a check box for "Have you lately dismembered a body as part of a criminal gang" YES NO
Or words to that effect. :biggrinjester:

I guess they figure the background check covers the need, vice the self admitted "not in a gang" status a person carrying under MPA would need.
Strange for sure...
But that revelation makes me ask...If the report I read is correct and some of those arrested had an LTC, why were they charged with UCW because they were gang members?
No words or opinions I post in this forum are intended to be offensive to any member here.

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Re: UCW & Gang members Follow the "I dont know what I dont know" ball

Postby E.Marquez » Wed Aug 16, 2017 8:33 am

SO in my mind this is now a settled deal, and I would have known that if I had read and researched better before posting . :banghead:
It appears they do not have Texas LTC

So they "could have" been carrying under MPA, but by being known street gang members they were by statute forbidden to do so.
So the allegations of UCW, stem from that I would think and LTC never comes into the issue.

I also went back and looked at the source of my confusing reference that they had an LTC...it was a forum post..and the user has since edited the post to remove that part... He has not responded to me asking how he came to the understanding they have a concealed carry permit.

This this case does not reference the discussion If you have an LTC, does MPA ever come into consideration.
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