New TX Resident with other state RESIDENT license

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extremist
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New TX Resident with other state RESIDENT license

#1

Post by extremist »

I did email RDS_Customer_Relations with this question but didn't really get a straight answer. And I've not been able to find an answer that definitively addresses the question. Here was my question:

"I'm an instructor. Have a student that recently moved to Texas from Kentucky. He possesses a valid Kentucky CHL (I questioned whether it is still valid since he is no longer a resident of KY). We have reciprocity with KY. He now has a TX DL and residency. But has not been a resident for 6 mo. Can he continue to carry legally with his KY license until he's eligible for a TX LTC? Thanks!"

Here was their answer: "If your student has a valid Texas Driver’s License and valid Texas residence address, he does not need to wait six (6) months. He is a citizen of Texas. He can submit an application now."

They didn't answer my question fully. I understand the 6 mo wait has been eliminated. I've had it come up at least 2 other times recently. Same situation - new RESIDENTS of TX (with TX DL) but carrying on another states RESIDENT CHL/LTC (i.e. FL, KY, etc) but they are no longer a resident of that state (are they still valid?). They bring up reciprocity - which I tell them - well yes, that's true - if you are a resident of those states, TX recognizes them, but you aren't, you are a resident of TX. You need a TX LTC. I've not seen it addressed in any materials and not in the Statutes (at least I can't find it) and not addressed in the DPS FAQ.

So does anyone know definitively? I've told these people, they need to call or email RDS and ask the question and see what they say.

Thanks,
James
TX LTC Instructor, NRA Endowment Life Member, USPSA CRO
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Pawpaw
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Re: New TX Resident with other state RESIDENT license

#2

Post by Pawpaw »

If KY says his license is still valid, then it's valid in Texas.
Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence. - John Adams

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Re: New TX Resident with other state RESIDENT license

#3

Post by srothstein »

I believe that a part of the problem is a flaw in your logic. You stated that a Texas resident has to have a Texas LTC and this is not an accurate statement. Unlike with driver's license, there is no law requiring a Texas resident to have a Texas license if he has one. Many Texas residents get their license from another state. This may be because the other state has less restrictive laws on who qualifies. It also used to be based on the cost but I think that will drop now that we have lowered our fees.

I would say the only real question left is if the KY license is still valid under KY laws. If KY law says the license is only for residents, as one example, then the license is now invalid and the student could not carry on it. If KY allows a non-resident to have a license, then it is probably still valid and the student can carry on it until KY says no.
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RoyGBiv
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Re: New TX Resident with other state RESIDENT license

#4

Post by RoyGBiv »

Pawpaw wrote:If KY says his license is still valid, then it's valid in Texas.
This is NOT correct.

If he has a KY Non-resident license and a TX DL, I believe he is good to go.
But if his KY license is a RESIDENT license and he is no longer a KY resident, TX considers that not-valid.

At least that is what DPS told my friend when he moved here from WA.
WA told him that they would honor his resident license until it expired, but TX told him that since he was not a resident of WA that he would be arrested if found carrying on a WA resident license.

I am not a lawyer. This is my OPINION, not legal advice.
I am not a lawyer. This is NOT legal advice.!
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Pawpaw
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Re: New TX Resident with other state RESIDENT license

#5

Post by Pawpaw »

RoyGBiv wrote:
Pawpaw wrote:If KY says his license is still valid, then it's valid in Texas.
This is NOT correct.

If he has a KY Non-resident license and a TX DL, I believe he is good to go.
But if his KY license is a RESIDENT license and he is no longer a KY resident, TX considers that not-valid.

At least that is what DPS told my friend when he moved here from WA.
WA told him that they would honor his resident license until it expired, but TX told him that since he was not a resident of WA that he would be arrested if found carrying on a WA resident license.

I am not a lawyer. This is my OPINION, not legal advice.
That is exactly what I was saying. If KY says his resident license is still valid, even though he has moved, then it's valid in TX. If KY says his resident license became invalid when he moved. then it's not valid in TX.
Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence. - John Adams
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Keith B
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Re: New TX Resident with other state RESIDENT license

#6

Post by Keith B »

Kentucky doesn't appear to issue non-resident licenses except to someone who is in the military. That said, they may not invalidate a license for someone who was a resident and moved away.

So, that said, if they can validly change their address on the license with Kentucky, and Kentucky still says the license is valid, then he would be able to carry on it. If he legally can't change the address on it to Texas and it become a non-resident permit, then the permit is invalid and he no longer can carry since he has established residency in Texas.

So, he needs to contact Kentucky and see if they allow the change. If not, as has been stated by DPS he does not have to wait 6 months any longer (been that way for years, so as an instructor it should have been known) he can take the class and apply for a Texas license. In the interim he won't be legal to carry.

Also, you don't legally have to have a TX LTC. TX honors states with non-resident licenses. And example if a person who is not able to get a license in TX due to back child support may be able to get a FL or AZ license and carry legally. (Not gonna start a discussion on if they should or shouldn't pay their child support first, yada yada)
Keith
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bigtek
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Re: New TX Resident with other state RESIDENT license

#7

Post by bigtek »

extremist wrote:They bring up reciprocity - which I tell them - well yes, that's true - if you are a resident of those states, TX recognizes them, but you aren't, you are a resident of TX. You need a TX LTC.
That's incorrect. A Texas resident can carry in Texas using reciprocity if the other state license is valid (per the other state's laws) and is accepted in Texas per Texas law.
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RoyGBiv
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Re: New TX Resident with other state RESIDENT license

#8

Post by RoyGBiv »

Pawpaw wrote:
RoyGBiv wrote:
Pawpaw wrote:If KY says his license is still valid, then it's valid in Texas.
This is NOT correct.

If he has a KY Non-resident license and a TX DL, I believe he is good to go.
But if his KY license is a RESIDENT license and he is no longer a KY resident, TX considers that not-valid.

At least that is what DPS told my friend when he moved here from WA.
WA told him that they would honor his resident license until it expired, but TX told him that since he was not a resident of WA that he would be arrested if found carrying on a WA resident license.

I am not a lawyer. This is my OPINION, not legal advice.
That is exactly what I was saying. If KY says his resident license is still valid, even though he has moved, then it's valid in TX. If KY says his resident license became invalid when he moved. then it's not valid in TX.
Please reread what I wrote.

It doesn't matter whether KY says the license is still valid. TX doesn't recognize a RESIDENT permit from another state if the licensee is not currently a resident of the state that issued the license.

He might be able to legally carry in KY, but TX DPS told my friend he would be arrested for carrying without a license if he was carrying on a WA RESIDENT carry license but was actually a resident of TX.

Again, just my opinion, not legal advice.
I am not a lawyer. This is NOT legal advice.!
Nothing tempers idealism quite like the cold bath of reality.... SQLGeek
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ScottDLS
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Re: New TX Resident with other state RESIDENT license

#9

Post by ScottDLS »

RoyGBiv wrote:
Pawpaw wrote:
RoyGBiv wrote:
Pawpaw wrote:If KY says his license is still valid, then it's valid in Texas.
This is NOT correct.

If he has a KY Non-resident license and a TX DL, I believe he is good to go.
But if his KY license is a RESIDENT license and he is no longer a KY resident, TX considers that not-valid.

At least that is what DPS told my friend when he moved here from WA.
WA told him that they would honor his resident license until it expired, but TX told him that since he was not a resident of WA that he would be arrested if found carrying on a WA resident license.

I am not a lawyer. This is my OPINION, not legal advice.
That is exactly what I was saying. If KY says his resident license is still valid, even though he has moved, then it's valid in TX. If KY says his resident license became invalid when he moved. then it's not valid in TX.
Please reread what I wrote.

It doesn't matter whether KY says the license is still valid. TX doesn't recognize a RESIDENT permit from another state if the licensee is not currently a resident of the state that issued the license.

He might be able to legally carry in KY, but TX DPS told my friend he would be arrested for carrying without a license if he was carrying on a WA RESIDENT carry license but was actually a resident of TX.

Again, just my opinion, not legal advice.
Many states make no distinction between resident and non resident licenses, other than the address printed on the license. If it’s one of those states and they still consider it valid, then you should be ok. Note the reciprocity language in the chapter 411 does not address residency at all.
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extremist
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Re: New TX Resident with other state RESIDENT license

#10

Post by extremist »

Thanks for all the responses but I think it is clear that this is not settled issue. Much disagreement and that is why I asked them to contact DPS themselves.
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RoyGBiv
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Re: New TX Resident with other state RESIDENT license

#11

Post by RoyGBiv »

extremist wrote:Thanks for all the responses but I think it is clear that this is not settled issue. Much disagreement and that is why I asked them to contact DPS themselves.
Please let us know what DPS says.
I am not a lawyer. This is NOT legal advice.!
Nothing tempers idealism quite like the cold bath of reality.... SQLGeek
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Keith B
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Re: New TX Resident with other state RESIDENT license

#12

Post by Keith B »

extremist wrote:Thanks for all the responses but I think it is clear that this is not settled issue. Much disagreement and that is why I asked them to contact DPS themselves.
I would say the only issue is if Kentucky still considers his license valid or can continue to be valid with a change of address to Texas. DPS won't tell you that; it would have to come from Kentucky State Police. That is the only question. If they do, then he can carry in Texas on his Kentucky non-resident license.
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Re: New TX Resident with other state RESIDENT license

#13

Post by Smokey613 »

The problem with getting a verbal answer from DPS is the same as a verbal answer from any government entity about any question.... you can talk to 3 different people, ask the same question and get three different answers.
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Re: New TX Resident with other state RESIDENT license

#14

Post by parabelum »

Smokey613 wrote:The problem with getting a verbal answer from DPS is the same as a verbal answer from any government entity about any question.... you can talk to 3 different people, ask the same question and get three different answers.
:iagree:

I was just about the type the same. Whatever the case, if you can, see that correspondence is in written form, otherwise it may be hearsay.


KYCCDW req.:

“Be at least 21 years of age.
Meet one of the following residence requirements:
Is a citizen of the United States who is a resident of this Commonwealth;
Is a citizen of the United States who is a member of the Armed Forces of the United States who is on active duty, who is at the time of application assigned to a military posting in Kentucky;
Is lawfully admitted to the United States by the United States government or an agency thereof, is permitted by federal law to purchase a firearm; or
Is lawfully admitted to the United States by the United States government or an agency thereof, is permitted by federal law to purchase a firearm, is, at the time of the application, assigned to a military posting in Kentucky, and has been assigned to a posting in the Commonwealth;

Not be under indictment for, or have been convicted of, a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year; and
Not be a fugitive from justice; and
Not be an unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substance; and
Not have been adjudicated as a mental defective or have committed to a mental institution; and
Not have been discharged from the Armed Forces under dishonorable conditions; and
Not be subject to a domestic violence order or emergency protective order; and
Not have been convicted of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence (see section below for discussion of misdemeanor crimes of domestic violence); and
Not be prohibited from the purchase, receipt or possession of firearms, ammunition or both pursuant to 18 U.S.C. 922(g), 18 U.S.C. 922(n), or applicable state law; and
Not have been committed to a state or federal facility for abuse of a controlled substance or convicted of a misdemeanor relating to a controlled substance within the three-year period immediately preceding the date the application was submitted; and
Not have two or more convictions for violating KRS 189A.010 (Operating motor vehicle under the influence of alcohol or other substance which impairs driving ability) within the three (3) years immediately preceding the date on which the application is submitted; and
Not have been committed as an alcoholic pursuant to KRS Chapter 222 or similar laws of another state within the three (3) year period immediately preceding the date on which the application is submitted; and
Not owe a child support arrearage which equals or exceeds the cumulative amount which would be owed after one (1) year of nonpayment, if the Department of Kentucky State Police has been notified of the arrearage by the Cabinet for Health and Family Services; and
Have complied with any subpoena or warrant relating to child support or paternity proceedings. If the Department of Kentucky State Police has not been notified by the Cabinet for Health and Family Services that the applicant has failed to meet this requirement, the Department of Kentucky State Police shall assume that paternity and child support proceedings are not an issue; and
Have not been convicted of a violation of KRS 508.030 (Assault in the fourth degree) or 508.080 (Terroristic Threatening in the third degree) within the three years immediately preceding the date on which the application is submitted; and
Demonstrate competence with a firearm by successful completion of a firearms safety or training course offered or approved by the Department of Criminal Justice Training.”

http://kentuckystatepolice.org/ccdw/qualifications.html
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