Lt Governor

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ELB
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Re: Lt Governor

Postby ELB » Thu Dec 21, 2017 3:01 pm

I believe this was part advertisement and part message/warning to any law enforcement agencies/security companies that weren't onboard with the changes in the law concerning church security teams.
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bbhack
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Re: Lt Governor

Postby bbhack » Tue Dec 26, 2017 4:16 pm

ELB wrote:I believe this was part advertisement and part message/warning to any law enforcement agencies/security companies that weren't onboard with the changes in the law concerning church security teams.


An elected official using covert means to communicate an important message to both friends and foes. Where have I seen that before?

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DEB
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Re: Lt Governor

Postby DEB » Thu Dec 28, 2017 11:41 am

Got a question for the group concerning Church carry prohibitions. I have a friend who goes to a church and is part of their security team. They do not post either 30.06 or 30.07 signage, but he does give out cards to those openly carrying telling these folks that open carry is prohibited. He contends that this is effective written notice, I do not. I contend that effective written notice requires the 30.07 signage properly posted and that only the recognized Church leader can give verbal notice. What say you all? Thanks. :tiphat:
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ELB
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Re: Lt Governor

Postby ELB » Thu Dec 28, 2017 11:47 am

Believe your friend is correct. Just verbally telling someone "No OC" is enough, but a card with the statutory language on it is effective notice as well. Standby for statutory reference.


Update:

Sec. 30.07. TRESPASS BY LICENSE HOLDER WITH AN OPENLY CARRIED HANDGUN. (a) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder:

(1) openly carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, on property of another without effective consent; and

(2) received notice that entry on the property by a license holder openly carrying a handgun was forbidden.

(b) For purposes of this section, a person receives notice if the owner of the property or someone with apparent authority to act for the owner provides notice to the person by oral or written communication.

(c) In this section:

(1) "Entry" has the meaning assigned by Section 30.05(b).

(2) "License holder" has the meaning assigned by Section 46.035(f).

(3) "Written communication" means:

(A) a card or other document on which is written language identical to the following: "Pursuant to Section 30.07, Penal Code (trespass by license holder with an openly carried handgun), a person licensed under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code (handgun licensing law), may not enter this property with a handgun that is carried openly"; or

(B) a sign posted on the property that:

(i) includes the language described by Paragraph (A) in both English and Spanish;

(ii) appears in contrasting colors with block letters at least one inch in height; and

(iii) is displayed in a conspicuous manner clearly visible to the public at each entrance to the property.


Note that "card or other document" and "sign posted on the property" are separate methods of written communication.
Last edited by ELB on Thu Dec 28, 2017 11:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Lt Governor

Postby Liberty » Thu Dec 28, 2017 11:48 am

DEB wrote:Got a question for the group concerning Church carry prohibitions. I have a friend who goes to a church and is part of their security team. They do not post either 30.06 or 30.07 signage, but he does give out cards to those openly carrying telling these folks that open carry is prohibited. He contends that this is effective written notice, I do not. I contend that effective written notice requires the 30.07 signage properly posted and that only the recognized Church leader can give verbal notice. What say you all? Thanks. :tiphat:


Your friend is correct. The cards with the proper 30.07 handed to someone is considered proper written notice. The offender could have been simply asked to cover up or leave and that would have also been effective notice.
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Re: Lt Governor

Postby rtschl » Thu Dec 28, 2017 12:19 pm

Liberty wrote:
DEB wrote:Got a question for the group concerning Church carry prohibitions. I have a friend who goes to a church and is part of their security team. They do not post either 30.06 or 30.07 signage, but he does give out cards to those openly carrying telling these folks that open carry is prohibited. He contends that this is effective written notice, I do not. I contend that effective written notice requires the 30.07 signage properly posted and that only the recognized Church leader can give verbal notice. What say you all? Thanks. :tiphat:


Your friend is correct. The cards with the proper 30.07 handed to someone is considered proper written notice. The offender could have been simply asked to cover up or leave and that would have also been effective notice.


:iagree: The security member is acting on behalf of the church - just like any other business. Oral notice would be effective. Written notice does require the proper wording as Liberty said. But if ignored, that invites the oral notice. I serve on the security team at my church and we give oral notice only. No ugly 30.07 signs and no cards. We say we do not mind him/her carrying but we ask the person to conceal their weapon.

Interesting side note: A homeless man kept coming back asking people for money and camped out on our property. Earlier that day I told him to leave as he couldn't sleep here. Later that night he showed back up on the property - and the police happened to be parked on our parking lot and they offered to check him out. He claimed a pastor told him he could sleep there at night. The police told him that as a security officer I represented the church and had the authority to have him leave. Emphasis mine. Point is - a security officer does have authority to speak for entity that he is providing security.
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DEB
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Re: Lt Governor

Postby DEB » Thu Dec 28, 2017 12:32 pm

Appreciate it guys. This really helped me and him in our arguments for our separate churches.
Unless we keep the barbarian virtues, gaining the civilized ones will be of little avail. Oversentimentality, oversoftness, washiness, and mushiness are the great dangers of this age and of this people." Teddy Roosevelt"
U.S. Army Retired, (Sapper). VFW Life Member.


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Re: Lt Governor

Postby Abraham » Thu Dec 28, 2017 12:46 pm

Just curious: Are any of the security teams discreetly armed with AR's or something similar?

If, (my opinion) some suicidal jihadists decide to kill a bunch of worshipping Christians, long guns (again, my opinion) in addition to pistols would be even more effective for security.

And yes, it's a shame it's come to this, but I think it should be considered if it hasn't already...

No, I don't go to church, but many, many of my friends who I love/care for do. I want them protected as much as is possible...


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